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Florida
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Posted: Thu Aug 18th, 2005 04:51 pm |
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katzap wrote:
As for Jews - it's clear enough - who wants to stop being "the chosen one" and to be just an ordinary man - so, only very honest and brave Jews can convert. But why are Christians so weak comparatively to muslims?
Seems that you don't like Jews...if one my be brave and honest to choose another religion! How about one must be confused? Or misinformed? Mislead? Wrong? All of the above are possiilities, actually. I just get upset when I see someone put down a religion as something one would be WISE to abandon.
I am a Jew, and while the term "Chosen People" is popular, it always becomes apparent that few outside of Judaism know what it means. The nation of Israel was chosen for additional responsibilities, additional obligations..NOT additional perks and privledges. Judasim, in the Torah and the Talmud, teaches that the righteous of all faiths and nations will share in the rewards. Judasim is not big on the concept of a personal heaven, so the nature of the rewards any of us will have is ambiguous. That's why Jews are charged with Tikkun Olam...healing the world...THIS world, rather than focusing on real or imaginary worlds to come. And the fact that we feel additional obligations and duties, without any special perks, is why Judasim is not a prosletyzing religion...why convert for more work when there aren't any extra rewards?
Christians, who seem to believe that is is their way or H***, have a different perspective on the whole conversion thing, and seem in fact to consider themselves a whole lot more chosen (in terms of rewards and blessings) than the rest of us!
Islam teaches that it is the way meant for all people, but that G-d will not overlook the righteous of any faith who believe in G-d.
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sophion
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Posted: Thu Aug 18th, 2005 05:24 pm |
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Florida wrote: Christians, who seem to believe that is is their way or H***, have a different perspective on the whole conversion thing, and seem in fact to consider themselves a whole lot more chosen (in terms of rewards and blessings) than the rest of us!
Islam teaches that it is the way meant for all people, but that G-d will not overlook the righteous of any faith who believe in G-d.
The Quran said that the Muslims are the best of all people. That is about as arrogant as any self-righteous christian.
Islam only recognizes the righteousness of any faith who believes in its selfish version of "God". So you can count most of Christianity out, as well as hinduism and buddhism.
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rachamim18
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Posted: Thu Aug 18th, 2005 07:54 pm |
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| Most non-Jews [and alot of assimilated Jews as well] totally misunderstand the term "Chosen People." They have some fantasy that it means a positive thing, as if Jews are some how above, or think they are above all other people. In fact it is the direct oppoistie. It means that Jews were "chosen" to perform all 613 Torah Mitzvit, or "commandments." It is a case of an incredible onus, not a pleasure or award. I have edited this to acknowledge that Florida has stated this already. Last edited on Thu Aug 18th, 2005 07:56 pm by rachamim18
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rachamim18
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Posted: Thu Aug 18th, 2005 07:58 pm |
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| Sophion: Actually, Islam ONLY offers an elevated status among other religions to those so called "People of the Book" [i.e. Christians and Jews]. It still clearly states that these religions are incomplete revelations, i.e. inferior.
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Florida
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Posted: Thu Aug 18th, 2005 11:24 pm |
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Christians regualrly quote Jesus as saying that excepting through faith in him, no one can enter heaven.
"No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6)"
That's pretty limiting, as it leaves out some 90% of the world! It says nothing about other righteous people of any other faith!
Last edited on Thu Aug 18th, 2005 11:25 pm by Florida
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skeptical_R_I
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Posted: Fri Aug 19th, 2005 12:59 am |
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rachamim18 wrote: Most non-Jews [and alot of assimilated Jews as well] totally misunderstand the term "Chosen People." They have some fantasy that it means a positive thing, as if Jews are some how above, or think they are above all other people. In fact it is the direct oppoistie. It means that Jews were "chosen" to perform all 613 Torah Mitzvit, or "commandments." It is a case of an incredible onus, not a pleasure or award. I have edited this to acknowledge that Florida has stated this already. As a convert to Orthodox Judaism I wouldn't call observing the mitzvit an "incredible onus", but it certainly puts one in a category of additional responsibilities and observances that a non-Jew doesn't have.
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Genghis
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Posted: Fri Aug 19th, 2005 01:09 am |
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skeptical_R_I wrote:
Beyondthegrave wrote: I just want to explore certain aspects of these three major religions. Due to my limited knowledge in them, correctionis are welcomed.
Let's see the downside of not believing in them:
Christianity: If you don't believe in Jesus, you go to hell.
Islam: If you don't believe in Allah and you are not a Muslim, you go to hell.
Judaism: "The whole world is to be destroyed, but Israel will be delivered out of it."
http://www.contenderministries.org/prophecy/eschatology.php
So I infer all nonbelievers will go to hell too.
Alleged proof of these religions:
Christianity: Mostly historic records, personal accounts.
Islam: Same as above.
Judaism: Same as above.
Conclusion:
Each one of them provide as much "proof" as the others, which means they are as valid as the other two. Christianity is no "truer" than Islam or Judaism. Same with the other two. No one can deny there's the slightest possibility that the others are true and their religion is false. Assuming these three religions are the only possibilities, you have 1/3 chance of being right. there's 67% chance that you are screwed!
I don't have time to really comment today (although I'll try to get around to it in a day or two) but you need to realize that the web site that you quote gives a "Christian" interpretation of the three religions. Its what Christians (at least on that web site) believe Jews would believe if they interpreted the Bible from a Christian point of view. It very much misrepresents Judaism, and possibly Islam also (although I wouldn't know).
When Christianity came on the scene in the first few centuries they kept a lot of "Jewish", that is, Biblical, terminology - but changed the meanings of the words so much that Christianity became not a "fulfilled" Judaism, but an entirely different religion altogether, much more in sync with the paganism of their day than with Judaism. Christianity came up with new definitions of God, man, sin, salvation, messiah, Torah, etc - so when a Christian talks about what Jews believe, he usually isn't using and intending his terms in concepts that a Jew would even understand, much less give assent to. A quick example: Original Sin is the cornerstone of Christianity - its what Jesus saves one from. Its why Christianity needs a "savior" concept of the messiah! Yet the concept of original sin doesn't even exist in Judaism (as it doesn't exist in Islam) - hence Jews (like Muslims) have no need for a "salvation" in the Christian sense. To be continued...
By and large "original sin" no longer exists in Christianity either.
G
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Genghis
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Posted: Fri Aug 19th, 2005 01:15 am |
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Beyondthegrave wrote:
Are you saying Saudi Arabia, the biggest oil exporting country in the world, poor? Its leaders gave billions of dollars to the Bush family too. It owns about 7% of America, according to the film "Fahrenheit 911."
Now that's a reliable source.
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Enlil
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Posted: Fri Aug 19th, 2005 12:57 pm |
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Saudi Arabia - Economy
Currency : Rial (SAR) = 100 Halalas
Rate of exchange (Sept.2004) :
1 Euro = 4.54 Rial (SAR)
2002 : 191 billion dollars
2002 : 9052 dollars
2003 : 190 billion dollars
2003 : 9005 dollars
this gives them a world rank on gnp as number 22, only a few step over Denmark. and we are only 5 MILLION people in total, yet ranked as the 27th richest nation in the world. Think about it, thats not very impressive for a nation with 21.100.000 people. The saudis and bin ladens however are rich beyond imagination. Fahd alone was worth over 30billion dollars in liquid assets. God knows how much money those jackals are worth in total. But saudi arabia is poor on a gnp comparison.
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rachamim18
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Posted: Fri Aug 19th, 2005 06:35 pm |
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| That is EXACTLY why Christianity is inherently flawed. Islam says the same and I do not see either as a compassionate or loving faith. In fact, of the 3, only Judiaism offers all of humankind full redemption, regardless of creed [as long as they engage in the so called Noahide Laws...which is still a cause for debate].
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Druze
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Posted: Sat Aug 20th, 2005 12:26 am |
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Judaism is certainly the most inclusive of the three in terms of tolerance and acceptance.
Also where as Muslims try to get into Paradise and Christians to avoid hell, in Judaism the after-life is not sought.
A good Jew dedicates his life to the present world. A Jew does not really pray for things to happen but more so to thank G_D for the life already given. Judaism focuses on preserving hte present earth rather then ensuring the next life.
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rachamim18
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Posted: Mon Aug 22nd, 2005 04:43 pm |
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| EXACTLY! Someone DOES get it!
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KAOSKTRL
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Posted: Mon Aug 22nd, 2005 05:52 pm |
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Islam declares Mohammed is a prophet of god.
It goes on to say disbelief in that is worse then murder ./
And to fight until all people stop not believing
Shirk is worse than Killing
Since Jihad involves killing and shedding the blood of men, Allah indicated that these men are committing disbelief in Allah, associating with Him (in the worship) and hindering from His path, and this is a much greater evil and more disastrous than killing. Abu Malik commented about what Allah said:
[وَالْفِتْنَةُ أَشَدُّ مِنَ الْقَتْلِ]
(And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing.) Meaning what you (disbelievers) are committing is much worse than killing.'' Abu Al-`Aliyah, Mujahid, Sa`id bin Jubayr, `Ikrimah, Al-Hasan, Qatadah, Ad-Dahhak and Ar-Rabi` bin Anas said that what Allah said:
[وَالْفِتْنَةُ أَشَدُّ مِنَ الْقَتْلِ]
(And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing.) "Shirk (polytheism) is worse than killing.''
http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=2&tid=5008
The Order to fight until there is no more Fitnah
Allah then commanded fighting the disbelievers when He said:
[حَتَّى لاَ تَكُونَ فِتْنَةٌ]
(...until there is no more Fitnah) meaning, Shirk. This is the opinion of Ibn `Abbas, Abu Al-`Aliyah, Mujahid, Al-Hasan, Qatadah, Ar-Rabi`, Muqatil bin Hayyan, As-Suddi and Zayd bin Aslam.
Allah's statement:
[وَيَكُونَ الدِّينُ للَّهِ]
(...and the religion (all and every kind of worship) is for Allah (Alone).) means, `So that the religion of Allah becomes dominant above all other religions.' It is reported in the Two Sahihs that Abu Musa Al-Ash`ari said: "The Prophet was asked, `O Allah's Messenger! A man fights out of bravery, and another fights to show off, which of them fights in the cause of Allah' The Prophet said:
«مَنْ قَاتَلَ لِتَكُونَ كَلِمَةُ اللهِ هِيَ الْعُلْيا فَهُوَ فِي سَبِيلِ الله»
(He who fights so that Allah's Word is superior, then he fights in Allah's cause.) In addition, it is reported in the Two Sahihs:
«أُمِرْتُ أَنْ أُقَاتِلَ النَّاسَ حَتَّى يَقُولُوا لَا إِلهَ إلَّا اللهُ، فَإِذَا قَالُوهَا عَصَمُوا مِنِّي دِمَاءَهُم وَأَمْوَالَهُمْ إلَّا بِحَقِّهَا وَحِسَابُهُمْ عَلَى الله»
(I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight the people until they proclaim, `None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'. Whoever said it, then he will save his life and property from me, except for cases of the law, and their account will be with Allah.)
Allah's statement:
[فَإِنِ انتَهَواْ فَلاَ عُدْوَنَ إِلاَّ عَلَى الظَّـلِمِينَ]
(But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against the wrongdoers.) indicates that, `If they stop their Shirk and fighting the believers, then cease warfare against them. Whoever fights them afterwards will be committing an injustice. Verily aggression can only be started against the unjust.' This is the meaning of Mujahid's statement that only combatants should be fought. Or, the meaning of the Ayah indicates that, `If they abandon their injustice, which is Shirk in this case, then do not start aggression against them afterwards.' The aggression here means retaliating and fighting them, just as Allah said:
[فَمَنِ اعْتَدَى عَلَيْكُمْ فَاعْتَدُواْ عَلَيْهِ بِمِثْلِ مَا اعْتَدَى عَلَيْكُمْ]
(Then whoever transgresses against you, you transgress likewise against him.) (2:194)
Similarly, Allah said:
[وَجَزَآءُ سَيِّئَةٍ سَيِّئَةٌ مِّثْلُهَا]
(The recompense for an evil is an evil like thereof.) (42:40), and:
[وَإِنْ عَاقَبْتُمْ فَعَاقِبُواْ بِمِثْلِ مَا عُوقِبْتُمْ بِهِ]
(And if you punish them, then punish them with the like of that with which you were afflicted. ) (16:126)
`Ikrimah and Qatadah stated, "The unjust person is he who refuses to proclaim, `There is no God worthy of worship except Allah'.''
Under Allah's statement:
[وَقَـتِلُوهُمْ حَتَّى لاَ تَكُونَ فِتْنَةٌ]
(And fight them until there is no more Fitnah) Al-Bukhari recorded that Nafi` said that two men came to Ibn `Umar during the conflict of Ibn Az-Zubayr and said to him, "The people have fallen into shortcomings and you are the son of `Umar and the Prophet's Companion. Hence, what prevents you from going out'' He said, "What prevents me is that Allah has for bidden shedding the blood of my (Muslim) brother.'' They said, "Did not Allah say:
[وَقَـتِلُوهُمْ حَتَّى لاَ تَكُونَ فِتْنَةٌ]
(And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah))'' He said, "We did fight until there was no more Fitnah and the religion became for Allah Alone. You want to fight until there is Fitnah and the religion becomes for other than Allah!''
`Uthman bin Salih added that a man came to Ibn `Umar and asked him, "O Abu `Abdur-Rahman! What made you perform Hajj one year and `Umrah another year and abandon Jihad in the cause of Allah, although you know how much He has encouraged performing it'' He said, "O my nephew! Islam is built on five (pillars): believing in Allah and His Messenger, the five daily prayers, fasting Ramadan, paying the Zakah and performing Hajj (pilgrimage) to the House.'' They said, "O Abu `Abdur-Rahman! Did you not hear what Allah said in His Book:
[وَإِن طَآئِفَتَانِ مِنَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ اقْتَتَلُواْ فَأَصْلِحُواْ بَيْنَهُمَا فَإِن بَغَتْ إِحْدَاهُمَا عَلَى الأُخْرَى فَقَـتِلُواْ الَّتِى تَبْغِى حَتَّى تَفِىءَ إِلَى أَمْرِ اللَّهِ]
(And if two parties (or groups) among the believers fall to fighting, then make peace between them both. But if one of them outrages against the other, then fight you (all) against the one that which outrages till it complies with the command of Allah.) (49:9) and:
[وَقَـتِلُوهُمْ حَتَّى لاَ تَكُونَ فِتْنَةٌ]
(And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief))
He said, "That we did during the time of Allah's Messenger when Islam was still weak and (the Muslim) man used to face trials in his religion, such as killing or torture. When Islam became stronger (and apparent), there was no more Fitnah.'' He asked, "What do you say about `Ali and `Uthman'' He said, "As for `Uthman, Allah has forgiven him. However, you hated the fact that Allah had forgiven him! As for `Ali, he is the cousin of Allah's Messenger and his son-in-law.'' He then pointed with his hand, saying, "This is where his house is located (meaning, `so close to the Prophet's house just as `Ali was so close to the Prophet himself').''
[الشَّهْرُ الْحَرَامُ بِالشَّهْرِ الْحَرَامِ وَالْحُرُمَـتُ قِصَاصٌ فَمَنِ اعْتَدَى عَلَيْكُمْ فَاعْتَدُواْ عَلَيْهِ بِمِثْلِ مَا اعْتَدَى عَلَيْكُمْ وَاتَّقُواْ اللَّهَ وَاعْلَمُواْ أَنَّ اللَّهَ مَعَ الْمُتَّقِينَ]
(194. The sacred month is for the sacred month, and for the prohibited things, there is the Law of equality (Qisas). Then whoever transgresses against you, you transgress likewise against him. And fear Allah, and know that Allah is with Al-Muttaqin.)
http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=2&tid=5035
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rachamim18
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Posted: Mon Aug 22nd, 2005 07:31 pm |
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Good and informative post...
First, "jihad" is interpreted as not only allowable by almost all Muslim facets but as a compulsion. To deny "juhad" is seen as shirking one's basic Islamic duty. There are a tny group of intellectuals who posit that "jihad" is an intellectual and moral struggle as opposed to actual violence but it is safe to say that anyone witrh the slightest grasp of history and Islamic lore is not taken in by that rationalisation. For one thing, botht he Qu'ran and Ha'dit were written in a time when intellectual pursuits were not held in as high esteem. Violence ruled the day. This is an undeniable fact. Addionally, Islam holds that both works are entirely "untampered" with and resolute. Unlike any other the other 2 major monotheistic religions, islam holds that interpretation is cut and dry. Since the Revelation was unabridged and uncondensed, it should not then be abridged or condensed.
"Shrik." The arabic word does in fact refer to polytheism. This is the clear cut imperative to take up arms in defense of Islam and against polytheisim. "It is worse than death." Therefore, polytheisim is to dealt with by any effective means. It is worse to be an idol worshiper than to be killed, therefore killing an idol worhiper is merely saving one from a fate worse than death. The act of killing an idol worshiper is a blessing onto All-h.
"I have been ordered to fight by All-h." Doesn't that say it all?
"Fitn'a." That refers to inter-Islamic rivalries, but even there can still be interpreted to permit "jihad" between Shia and Sunna, or Shia and Ismaili, etc. Even within their own group[s], they are for war.
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RASHBAMIDES
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Posted: Wed Aug 24th, 2005 02:26 am |
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I would like to add the fact that Judaism is the only religion of the three that respects the other two.
In Christianity, only those who convert into the fold are salvated.
In Islam, only those who convert into the fold are salvated.
But with Judaism, everybody has a fighting chance! It is only the responsibilites that differ the Jews from the Goyim (Gentiles). Goyim have the responsiblity to keep the Noachide Laws:
1) Avodah Zarah (Prohibition on Idolatory)
2) Birchat Hash-m (Prohibition on Blasphesmy and Cursing the name of G-d)
3) Shefichat Damim (Prohibition on Murder)
4) Gezel (Prohibition on Robbery and Theft)
5) Gilui Arayot (Prohibition on Immorality and Forbidden Sexual Relationships)
6) Ever Min HaChay (Prohibition on removing and eating a limb from a live animal)
7) Dinim (Requirement to establish a Justice system to uphold these prohibitions)
While Jews have the extra responsibility to be a "light unto the nations", a reminder to the world of the existence of G-d. And, ladies and gentlemen, that is how the term, "chosen people" came along. It is not a title that means free caviar and the right to overlord the world. It means extra responsiblity to do Kiddush Hash-m (Santification of G-d's name).
Anyone, and I mean anyone, can become a tzaddik (righteous one) simply by acheiving their respective code of conducts.
And, on a final note, everybody goes to shamayim (heaven) after death. What differs is what one reaps as a reward there.
From my perspective, Judaism is the best religion in terms of moral conduct. How many Holocausts, how many suicide bombers, how many Crusades, how many Inquistions has observant Judaism produced? The answer is: none.
(Note: I draw the distinction between observant Judaism and the rest of Judaism because only observant Judaism considers themselves bound to the moralistic codes of the Torah (in addition to all the other commandments) whilst the rest of Judaism believes themselves not required to do what the Torah says.)
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brontosaurus
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Posted: Wed Aug 24th, 2005 05:28 am |
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Judaism was the first of the 3 religions.
Christianity was 2nd. It came and added more books to the Jewish Bible, calling the new books the "New Testament" and the original books the "Old Testament." "Testament" means "covenant" which is like a promise or contract between man and God.
The Old Testament has roughly 32 authors and was written over 1500 years.
The New Testament has roughly 8 authors and was written roughly over 60 years.
Islam was founded by one man who took the stories from both the Jews and Christians, changed them so all the good guys were now arabs instead of who they originally were, and then added a little bit other religions like paganism (which was the dominant religion of Arabs prior to Mohammad) and Eastern religions.
It was written (or dictated) by one man over roughly 20 years.
Judaism never sought converts.
Christianity sought converts by teaching other nations about their religion and asking if any would like to be Christian.
Islam spent the first 100 years of it's reign by conquering whole nations and killing everyone in them who would not convert.
The Jewish Bible (or Old Testament) is full of God declaring how much he loves people.
The New Testament is full of even more references to "love" and it actually says that "God is love."
Old Testament:
"The LORD, the LORD, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness" - Exodus 34:6
"The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God." - Leviticus 19:34
"Now therefore, O our God, the great, mighty and awesome God, who keeps his covenant of love" - Nehemiah 9:32
"He has remembered his love and his faithfulness to the house of Israel; all the ends of the earth have seen the salvation of our God." - Psalm 98:3
New Testament:
"And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us" - Romans 5:5
"But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." - Romans 5:8
"Neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." - Romans 8:39
"...and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God." - Ephesians 3:19
"Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us" - Ephesians 5:1-2
"And now I will show you the most excellent way... Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails." - 1 Corinthians 12:31, 13:4-8
"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you... do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back... Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked." - Luke 6:27, 35
"Finally, all of you, live in harmony with one another; be sympathetic, love as brothers, be compassionate and humble." - 1 Peter 3:8
"By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." - John 13:35
Christianity has had it's fair share of bloodshed in the dark ages. It started as a religion of love and everyone who follows the Bible believes they are called to love everyone.
Islam has always been a religion of bloodshed, from it's founder Mohammad who slaughtered thousands of people, took their women as his wives (he had more than 18 wives), and through every decade of Islam's existence. In fact, one of the reasons that every Muslim country is so poor (except for oil which only makes them rich because rich Christian countries rely on it) is because Muslims have constantly slaughtered eachother in tribal warfare for centuries while more civilized nations have slowly made their bumpy road to progress. Today in Africa, whole Muslim tribes kill tens of thousands of other Muslims EVERY WEEK. In Sudan, Muslims have killed 2 million Christians in the last 20 years just because they are not Muslim.
People have recently been referring to Islam as "the religion of peace." The only peaceful Muslims are American Muslims because most were raised as Christians. Why are 99.9% of all terrorists Muslim? Why was the DC sniper a convert to Islam? Why did the envelopes full of anthrax say "Allah is great - death to your children"? Why do Palestinians now teach many of their children to blow themselves up in hopes of killing non-Muslim children?
Summary: Judaism and Christianity are actually two parts of a whole - a monotheistic faith that emphasizes love, kindness, and decency to your fellow man.
Islam is an abberant tribal religion that takes a few ideas from Judaism and Christianity and then tacks on a lot of violence.
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brontosaurus
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Posted: Wed Aug 24th, 2005 05:31 am |
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| While the Q'uran claims to be a more perfect version of the Jewish and Christian bible, it does not contain any of these verses about love.
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Florida
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Posted: Wed Aug 24th, 2005 02:12 pm |
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brontosaurus wrote:
Judaism was the first of the 3 religions.
Christianity was 2nd. It came and added more books to the Jewish Bible, calling the new books the "New Testament" and the original books the "Old Testament." "Testament" means "covenant" which is like a promise or contract between man and God.
Islam was founded by one man who took the stories from both the Jews and Christians, changed them so all the good guys were now arabs instead of who they originally were, and then added a little bit other religions like paganism (which was the dominant religion of Arabs prior to Mohammad) and Eastern religions.
It was written (or dictated) by one man over roughly 20 years.
Judaism never sought converts.
Christianity sought converts by teaching other nations about their religion and asking if any would like to be Christian.
Islam spent the first 100 years of it's reign by conquering whole nations and killing everyone in them who would not convert.
The Jewish Bible (or Old Testament) is full of God declaring how much he loves people.
The New Testament is full of even more references to "love" and it actually says that "God is love."
Islam has always been a religion of bloodshed, In Sudan, Muslims have killed 2 million Christians in the last 20 years just because they are not Muslim.
People have recently been referring to Islam as "the religion of peace." The only peaceful Muslims are American Muslims because most were raised as Christians. Why are 99.9% of all terrorists Muslim?]
Ah...where to start? This is going to take awhile, and I have to go out now, but I will answer all of the inaccuracies and gross misrepresetations later. For now. just let me say that any religion can be framed so that it looks all good, and any religion can be framed so it looks all bad. It all depends upon the willingness of the writer to select some facts and carefully ignore others. It goes by many names...propaganda, spin, slant, bias, bigotry...whatever it's called, it's a crying shame when people use it in the name of G-d. 
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sophion
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Posted: Wed Aug 24th, 2005 02:32 pm |
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Miss Florida,
Before you write something up, dont ever forget that religions are not invented equal. Some are more cruel than others. Some are more ethical.
Consider if a religious conflict was a result of religious abuse or a result of religious following.
Compare the deeds of the founders.
Last edited on Wed Aug 24th, 2005 02:34 pm by sophion
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brontosaurus
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Posted: Wed Aug 24th, 2005 02:49 pm |
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Florida wrote: Ah...where to start? This is going to take awhile, and I have to go out now, but I will answer all of the inaccuracies and gross misrepresetations later. For now. just let me say that any religion can be framed so that it looks all good, and any religion can be framed so it looks all bad. It all depends upon the willingness of the writer to select some facts and carefully ignore others. It goes by many names...propaganda, spin, slant, bias, bigotry...whatever it's called, it's a crying shame when people use it in the name of G-d.
Yes, I knew someone was going to call me on that. It's true, the Bible also has passages where God appears to hate and be vengeful and his followers do a lot of killing. I didn't want to address that just yet because my post was so long as it is. In addition, I was going to post some verses from the Q'uran but I felt that was not fair because I don't know the Q'uran very well, and to just pick verses out of a hat would be misrepresenting it - that's what people do with the Bible all the time and it drives me nuts. But I do know the history of Islam, I know a good amount about the life of Mohammad, and I know quite a bit about the true nature of the Islamic world that we don't get to see in it's raw form because it is sanitized and packaged much more nicely by reporters by the time it comes over to our televisions. I have no qualms with Jews - they for the most part have wronged no one and are always on the receiveing end of abuse. Christians have done and continue to do stupid things sometimes. But Muslims in Muslim countries are cut-throat. They are so full of bloodshed, that when they are not fighting the Hindus in India or the Christians in Africa or the Jews in Israel or the West with terrorism, when they are not busy fighting the "infidels" they take time out to go on raids and slaughter fellow Muslims who are from a different sect or tribe or simply a different village. Don't get me wrong - there are peaceful Muslims. There are kind and loving Muslims. They are peppered in there amidst all the hate and violence. There are exceptions to every generalization. But the vast majority of the Islamic world still lives in a darkness that is incomprehensible to the West - you would have to live in it to understand it.
Jews main goal in life is to live a good productive, generous, and full life.
Christians main goal in life is to help others see what they believe is the truth of their religion by teaching and explaining about their God.
Muslims main goal in life (not American Muslims but real hard-core Muslims) is to take over the world. In this, they are no different than Hitler - just maybe not as motivated, so they do a lot more screaming about it in sermons than they do acting it out.
Jews believe all people who live a good life that is pleasing to God will go to heaven
Christians believe that only those who have been cleansed spiritually by Jesus will go to heaven - the rest to hell - but that is God's choice who goes where and God is just and loving.
Muslims believe all non-muslims will go to hell and it is the Muslim's job to send them there - they see themselves as performing the task for God of either conquering or ridding the earth of all infidels.
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