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Prez_Bush_iz_oriible
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Posted: Thu Jun 23rd, 2005 11:27 pm |
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| Africa should never have left the Great British Empire, ever since they have their country has crumbled into poverty and corruption. I believe that Britain should make an offer that if Africa re-joined the Empire more aid will be provided. I also believe that narrowminded people would not feels so neglectant to providing financial aid to another mamber of British territory. But what can beleifs do, when slow egg heads with limited perspectives run the country...
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yoshimi
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Posted: Fri Jun 24th, 2005 01:20 am |
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Prez_Bush_iz_oriible wrote: Africa should never have left the Great British Empire, ever since they have their country has crumbled into poverty and corruption. are you serious?? sorry I don't mean to be rude or pedantic but you do know Africa isn't a country don't you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africa. Also Britain wasn't the only colonial power in Africa....Germany,France,Italy,Holland,Belgium,Spain and Portugal are all partly responsible for the mess Africa's in now, (some moreso than others obviously). I believe that Britain should make an offer that if Africa re-joined the Empire more aid will be provided. I also believe that narrowminded people would not feels so neglectant to providing financial aid to another mamber of British territory. But what can beleifs do, when slow egg heads with limited perspectives run the country...  the thought of Britain getting involved in Africa again is hilarious...they can't even stand up to Mugabee, let alone take the whole continent under its wing.
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freedomboy
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Posted: Fri Jun 24th, 2005 03:59 am |
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yoshimi wrote: Prez_Bush_iz_oriible wrote: Africa should never have left the Great British Empire, ever since they have their country has crumbled into poverty and corruption. are you serious?? sorry I don't mean to be rude or pedantic but you do know Africa isn't a country don't you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africa. Also Britain wasn't the only colonial power in Africa....Germany,France,Italy,Holland,Belgium,Spain and Portugal are all partly responsible for the mess Africa's in now, (some moreso than others obviously). I believe that Britain should make an offer that if Africa re-joined the Empire more aid will be provided. I also believe that narrowminded people would not feels so neglectant to providing financial aid to another mamber of British territory. But what can beleifs do, when slow egg heads with limited perspectives run the country... the thought of Britain getting involved in Africa again is hilarious...they can't even stand up to Mugabee, let alone take the whole continent under its wing. The African can't continue to blame the Europeans for their problem in perpetuity. The British left them in much better shape than they are today. They have no one to blame but themselves. I am citing the British because of all the European colonialist, they tried the hardest to do the right thing.
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iyankum
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Posted: Fri Jun 24th, 2005 04:02 am |
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| well, unless they can get some white males to run their country they're screwed
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unclepercy
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Posted: Fri Jun 24th, 2005 04:17 am |
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freedomboy,
You and I have agreed on more than one thing. We must think alike. Reckon it's because I'm 1/2 Canjun? But I'm adopted. Even so, I was raised by a French Lousiana mother.
Africa is just going to get a grip on their own reins. What did we have when we came to this country a few hundred years ago? Nothing. Pssst - What has Africa done for the world? What? - no Nobel prizes, no humanitarian relief for others, no great mathematicians, no great literature, no contributions of any proportional value?
Sometimes there are things others cannot do for you; you have to do them for yourself. The greatest sense of dignity comes from self-accomplishment and not a hand-out.
Uncle
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freedomboy
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Posted: Fri Jun 24th, 2005 04:18 am |
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The one who knows all wrote: freedomboy wrote: The one who knows all wrote: freedomboy wrote: yoshimi wrote: Well Africa is just a logistical nightmare due to all the corruption. You can pour all the money in you want but its just funding corrupt regimes. For example Bob Geldof said recently that more than half of the aid raised by Live Aid was wasted through corruption. Ghana is the only truely democratic country in sub-sahara Africa that can be aided effectively. So until the political situation is normalised, there is no point in pissing money up against a wall of corruption.
your right though the G8 nations don't do enough, and hopefully this will change after the summit this summer.
I agree with you concerning Africa. The only thing that can be done about Africa is to stay out and don't think about it. That is totally the wrong way of thinking, is exactly what most of the world is doing anyway. Africa needs help, as it cannot help it self. If the rest of the world gives Africa the help it needs, it will give Africa the chance to start helping it self. It would nice if you were right, but I feel strongly that you are wrong. Africa is a hopeless case. Money on the way to Africa takes a detour to Switzerland. Military intervention is totally out of the question. When Bill Clinton promised the Africans that we never allow another Rwanda; I think he knew he was lying. It would not matter if they had death camps and were killing people on a scale equivalent to the NAZIs. The US internal politics would never permit intervention in a black country. And, the UN, give me a break, they are worthless especially the Dutch. I don't know if they are cowards or just incompetent. The only hope I can see is maybe some type of African federation that might be strong enough to establish order. When I say help, I mean help in anyway possible, and that also means helping in such away that would see military involvement. I know this sound very bush, but what else can the world do. We cannot just sit back and watch Africa suffer. We as citizens of the world can not let them die from disease, famine and evil corrupt governments. First country to dethrone their corrupt government should be Zimbabwe and their president, president Mugabe. Can't you hear it, that is the sound of American cities burning. That would be the result of American military intervention in Africa. During our intervention in Somalia, I was starting to hear, " racist genocide." We have black politicians in this country that would try to build a reputation on resisting intervention in Africa.
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jeffersonCarter
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Posted: Fri Jun 24th, 2005 04:39 am |
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Education at the local level is the answer and a regional intervention force supported by wealthier nations would be a good way of preventing more Rwandas, Liberias and Sedans. My experience in the UN there, Rwanda and Congo, was that it is a positive influence, but was not well organized and supported. Corruption is probably the biggest problem that Africa has to overcome, but I think educating people that they don't have to pay local political people to get things done is the first step. People over there want to have democracy, but they are so use to having little or no power that they don't know they can fight for it. It's kind of like in the US where we are so use to our old republic form of government, we don't want to change it to make it better. It works okay why mess with it. Its entrenched. Only when there is a civil war or an uprising of tribalism is when things change. And in the mean time millions are dieing of Malaria, AIDS and starvation. I lost a lot of friends and colleagues to AIDS. I'd say at least 20% of the people in Rwanda had AIDs when I was there. The rest of the world cannot just continue to turn a blind eye to the dieing people there. We should be ashamed.
Hotel Rwanda is a pretty good movie, just watched it last weekend. I spent a few days and nights in that place from 1995/8, they have a good restaurant and nightclub on the upper level. It's too bad they couldn't have used the real location to do the filming though. It'd didn't have that authentic feeling for me.
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jeffersonCarter
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Posted: Fri Jun 24th, 2005 04:54 am |
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freedomboy wrote: The one who knows all wrote: It would nice if you were right, but I feel strongly that you are wrong. Africa is a hopeless case. Money on the way to Africa takes a detour to Switzerland. Military intervention is totally out of the question. When Bill Clinton promised the Africans that we never allow another Rwanda; I think he knew he was lying. It would not matter if they had death camps and were killing people on a scale equivalent to the NAZIs. The US internal politics would never permit intervention in a black country. And, the UN, give me a break, they are worthless especially the Dutch. I don't know if they are cowards or just incompetent. The only hope I can see is maybe some type of African federation that might be strong enough to establish order. When I say help, I mean help in anyway possible, and that also means helping in such away that would see military involvement. I know this sound very bush, but what else can the world do. We cannot just sit back and watch Africa suffer. We as citizens of the world can not let them die from disease, famine and evil corrupt governments. First country to dethrone their corrupt government should be Zimbabwe and their president, president Mugabe. Can't you hear it, that is the sound of American cities burning. That would be the result of American military intervention in Africa. During our intervention in Somalia, I was starting to hear, " racist genocide." We have black politicians in this country that would try to build a reputation on resisting intervention in Africa. I disagree. The genocide in Rwanda could have been stopped pretty quick, with I think a minimal amount of risk to the intervening forces. The Hutu militia groups were rag tag, disorganized and undisciplined. When the RPF came in from Uganda it only took 3 months for them to take over the country and they were just a small rebel force. A battalion or two of airborne troops or Marines could have taken out the interahamwe real quick and set up sanctuaries for the Tutsis, then handed over to a multinational force to sort out the new government. Last edited on Fri Jun 24th, 2005 04:55 am by jeffersonCarter
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The one who knows all
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Posted: Fri Jun 24th, 2005 11:23 am |
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unclepercy wrote: freedomboy,
You and I have agreed on more than one thing. We must think alike. Reckon it's because I'm 1/2 Canjun? But I'm adopted. Even so, I was raised by a French Lousiana mother.
Africa is just going to get a grip on their own reins. What did we have when we came to this country a few hundred years ago? Nothing. Pssst - What has Africa done for the world? What? - no Nobel prizes, no humanitarian relief for others, no great mathematicians, no great literature, no contributions of any proportional value?
Sometimes there are things others cannot do for you; you have to do them for yourself. The greatest sense of dignity comes from self-accomplishment and not a hand-out.
Uncle
Wow another poster who does not check their facts before they post. If I recall, a Kenyan woman won the Nobel peace prize last year, her name was WANGARI MAATHAI.
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freedomboy
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Posted: Fri Jun 24th, 2005 11:58 am |
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unclepercy wrote: freedomboy,
You and I have agreed on more than one thing. We must think alike. Reckon it's because I'm 1/2 Canjun? But I'm adopted. Even so, I was raised by a French Lousiana mother.
Africa is just going to get a grip on their own reins. What did we have when we came to this country a few hundred years ago? Nothing. Pssst - What has Africa done for the world? What? - no Nobel prizes, no humanitarian relief for others, no great mathematicians, no great literature, no contributions of any proportional value?
Sometimes there are things others cannot do for you; you have to do them for yourself. The greatest sense of dignity comes from self-accomplishment and not a hand-out.
Uncle
I love my uncle.
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freedomboy
Member
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Posted: Fri Jun 24th, 2005 12:00 pm |
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The one who knows all wrote: unclepercy wrote: freedomboy,
You and I have agreed on more than one thing. We must think alike. Reckon it's because I'm 1/2 Canjun? But I'm adopted. Even so, I was raised by a French Lousiana mother.
Africa is just going to get a grip on their own reins. What did we have when we came to this country a few hundred years ago? Nothing. Pssst - What has Africa done for the world? What? - no Nobel prizes, no humanitarian relief for others, no great mathematicians, no great literature, no contributions of any proportional value?
Sometimes there are things others cannot do for you; you have to do them for yourself. The greatest sense of dignity comes from self-accomplishment and not a hand-out.
Uncle
Wow another poster who does not check their facts before they post. If I recall, a Kenyan woman won the Nobel peace prize last year, her name was WANGARI MAATHAI. What did she win it for?
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freedomboy
Member
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Posted: Fri Jun 24th, 2005 12:07 pm |
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jeffersonCarter wrote: freedomboy wrote: The one who knows all wrote: It would nice if you were right, but I feel strongly that you are wrong. Africa is a hopeless case. Money on the way to Africa takes a detour to Switzerland. Military intervention is totally out of the question. When Bill Clinton promised the Africans that we never allow another Rwanda; I think he knew he was lying. It would not matter if they had death camps and were killing people on a scale equivalent to the NAZIs. The US internal politics would never permit intervention in a black country. And, the UN, give me a break, they are worthless especially the Dutch. I don't know if they are cowards or just incompetent. The only hope I can see is maybe some type of African federation that might be strong enough to establish order. When I say help, I mean help in anyway possible, and that also means helping in such away that would see military involvement. I know this sound very bush, but what else can the world do. We cannot just sit back and watch Africa suffer. We as citizens of the world can not let them die from disease, famine and evil corrupt governments. First country to dethrone their corrupt government should be Zimbabwe and their president, president Mugabe. Can't you hear it, that is the sound of American cities burning. That would be the result of American military intervention in Africa. During our intervention in Somalia, I was starting to hear, " racist genocide." We have black politicians in this country that would try to build a reputation on resisting intervention in Africa. I disagree. The genocide in Rwanda could have been stopped pretty quick, with I think a minimal amount of risk to the intervening forces. The Hutu militia groups were rag tag, disorganized and undisciplined. When the RPF came in from Uganda it only took 3 months for them to take over the country and they were just a small rebel force. A battalion or two of airborne troops or Marines could have taken out the interahamwe real quick and set up sanctuaries for the Tutsis, then handed over to a multinational force to sort out the new government. I think our troops could handle the dangers there, of course one always has to expect causalities. It is the home front that we would have to worry about.
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Mitchelline
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Posted: Fri Jun 24th, 2005 08:53 pm |
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Africa is a breeding ground for political criminal leaders to take advantage of...it,s every man for himself.....however they are still going to need funds, stopping funds because of currupt regimes will not help, but send it further in the gutter.
There is a way to make sure live aids are properly spent in Africa....the highest trustworthy power should get rid of the currupt leaders that are laying their greasy palms on funds, then some form of order should be able to established.
Men that are hiv infected and are committing rape and spreading this infectious disease to their own African people, should be locked up for several years, or given order abstinence from sex until they can be trusted or be freed.
Someone posted that the greatest sense of dignity comes from self-acomplishment and not a hand out...are you for real? someone got to get a head start.
Tell that to the tsunami victims....if they did not receive sufficient funds which they still are getting from around the world how do you think they would cope.
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unclepercy
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Posted: Sat Jun 25th, 2005 02:28 am |
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freedomboy,
I am laughing my booty off. Here is a direct quote:
Wangari Maathai – Biography
"she introduced the idea of planting trees with the people in 1976 and continued to develop it into broad-based, grassroots organization whose main focus is the planting of trees with women groups in order to conserve the environment and improve their quality of life."
That's what for.....think it beats our cure for diabetes? HA HA!!! Bring it on, freedomboy----->let's hear more from you.
Uncle
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The one who knows all
Member
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Posted: Sat Jun 25th, 2005 04:43 am |
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unclepercy wrote: freedomboy,
I am laughing my booty off. Here is a direct quote:
Wangari Maathai – Biography
"she introduced the idea of planting trees with the people in 1976 and continued to develop it into broad-based, grassroots organization whose main focus is the planting of trees with women groups in order to conserve the environment and improve their quality of life."
That's what for.....think it beats our cure for diabetes? HA HA!!! Bring it on, freedomboy----->let's hear more from you.
Uncle
She actually planted 10 million trees in Africa, to stop the extinction of forest in Kenya, which I think she achieved. Wangari is also a vivid human rights campaigner, and advocate for peace and democracy. Wangari is the Kenyan deputy environmentalist minister.
Joining her as one of Africa’s Nobel Prize winners are, Nelson Mandela (peace), John Michael Coetzee (literature), Kofi Annan (peace), Fredrik Willem De Klerk (peace), Desmond Mpilo Tutu (peace), Albert John Lutuli (peace), Nadine Gordimer (literature), Toni Morrison (literature), Alan M. Cormack (medicine).
They you go my Uncle; they are some of the Africans that have won the Nobel Peace Prize. And I suppose there many more Africans that have achieved many great things, which have not received a Nobel Prize, but have contributed to the world in some way.
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AmericanBeachGirl
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Posted: Sat Jun 25th, 2005 04:44 am |
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£220bn stolen by Nigeria's corrupt rulers
By David Blair in Abuja
(Filed: 25/06/2005)
The scale of the task facing Tony Blair in his drive to help Africa was laid bare yesterday when it emerged that Nigeria's past rulers stole or misused £220 billion.
That is as much as all the western aid given to Africa in almost four decades. The looting of Africa's most populous country amounted to a sum equivalent to 300 years of British aid for the continent.
Gen Sani Abacha
Former leader Gen Sani Abacha stole between £1bn and £3bn
The figures, compiled by Nigeria's anti-corruption commission, provide dramatic evidence of the problems facing next month's summit in Gleneagles of the G8 group of wealthy countries which are under pressure to approve a programme of debt relief for Africa.
Gordon Brown, the Chancellor, has spoken of a new Marshall Plan for Africa. But Nigeria's rulers have already pocketed the equivalent of six Marshall Plans. After that mass theft, two thirds of the country's 130 million people - one in seven of the total African population - live in abject poverty, a third is illiterate and 40 per cent have no safe water supply.
With more people and more natural resources than any other African country, Nigeria is the key to the continent's success.
Mallam Nuhu Ribadu, the chairman of the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission, set up three years ago, said that £220 billion was "squandered" between independence from Britain in 1960 and the return of civilian rule in 1999.
"We cannot be accurate down to the last figure but that is our projection," Osita Nwajah, a commission spokesman, said in the capital, Abuja.
The stolen fortune tallies almost exactly with the £220 billion of western aid given to Africa between 1960 and 1997. That amounted to six times the American help given to post-war Europe under the Marshall Plan.
British aid for Africa totalled £720 million last year. If that sum was spent annually for the next three centuries, it would cover the cost of Nigeria's looting.
Corruption on such a scale was made possible by the country's possession of 35 billion barrels of proven oil reserves. That allowed a succession of military rulers to line their pockets and deposit their gains mainly in western banks.
Gen Sani Abacha, the late military dictator, stole between £1 billion and £3 billion during his five-year rule.
"We are only now beginning to come to grips with some of what he did," Mr Nwajah said.
Nigeria has scoured the world for Abacha's assets but has recovered only about £500 million.
Olusegun Obasanjo, the current president, founded the commission and launched a crackdown on corruption to try to end the country's reputation as Africa's most venal. The figures all apply to the period before he came to power.
The amount of money involved has prompted the Government to seek ways to enhance Britain's ability to help developing countries recover stolen funds. In the autumn the Government will introduce legislation to pave the way for British ratification of the United Nations convention against corruption.
A money laundering directive agreed by EU finance ministers this month will impose new responsibilities on banks, casinos and other establishments to be more alert to signs of corruption. They will be expected to help stamp out financial abuse by high-risk customers in a position to abuse public office for private gain.
Mr Obasanjo will travel to the G8 summit to press the case for debt relief. Nigeria is Africa's biggest debtor, with loans of almost £20 billion, because previous rulers not only looted the country but also borrowed heavily against future oil revenues.
The G8 has refused to cancel Nigeria's loans, despite writing off the debts of 14 other African countries this month.
Prof Pat Utomi, of Lagos Business School, said that was the right decision. "Who is to say you won't see the same behaviour again if it is all written off?" he said.
david.blair@telegraph.co.uk
http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/06/25/wnig25.xml
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Cicero
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Posted: Sat Jun 25th, 2005 04:54 am |
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| Good. The more Africa's "corrupt" rulers steal, the more of it will trickle down to the people through the leaders' spending. Reaganomics, anyone?
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unclepercy
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Posted: Sat Jun 25th, 2005 05:29 am |
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AHA! Another poster who didn't check his facts. Toni Morrison is American, born in Ohio. Proportionally, given the size of Africa and its population, they have contributed very little to humankind. They have taken far more than they have given.
Your first example <Maathai> simply did what I suggested: The greatest sense of dignity comes from self-accomplishment and not a hand-out. Bill Cosby supports that notion.
See what he says: "I am talking about parenting. It is time for us to turn the mirror around. We have to take back the neighborhood." Link: http://www.strangecosmos.com/content/item/100283.html
"Where is Africa's contributions to mathematics, microbiology, nuclear physics, electrical engineering, medical advancements, new drug development, chemical engineering, etc.?
Uncle
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Cicero
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Posted: Sat Jun 25th, 2005 05:31 am |
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unclepercy wrote:
AHA! Another poster who didn't check his facts. Toni Morrison is American, born in Ohio. Proportionally, given the size of Africa and its population, they have contributed very little to humankind. They have taken far more than they have given.
Your first example <Maathai> simply did what I suggested: The greatest sense of dignity comes from self-accomplishment and not a hand-out. Bill Cosby supports that notion.
See what he says: "I am talking about parenting. It is time for us to turn the mirror around. We have to take back the neighborhood." Link: http://www.strangecosmos.com/content/item/100283.html
"Where is Africa's contributions to mathematics, microbiology, nuclear physics, electrical engineering, medical advancements, new drug development, chemical engineering, etc.?
Uncle
Which is all the more reason for a massive aid program to Africa. Once they develop economically, they will contribute more to the world in return.
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The one who knows all
Member
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Posted: Sat Jun 25th, 2005 06:32 am |
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unclepercy wrote: AHA! Another poster who didn't check his facts. Toni Morrison is American, born in Ohio. Proportionally, given the size of Africa and its population, they have contributed very little to humankind. They have taken far more than they have given.
Your first example <Maathai> simply did what I suggested: The greatest sense of dignity comes from self-accomplishment and not a hand-out. Bill Cosby supports that notion.
See what he says: "I am talking about parenting. It is time for us to turn the mirror around. We have to take back the neighborhood." Link: http://www.strangecosmos.com/content/item/100283.html
"Where is Africa's contributions to mathematics, microbiology, nuclear physics, electrical engineering, medical advancements, new drug development, chemical engineering, etc.?
Uncle
Well I did make a mistake with Toni Morrison, but the rest if the Nobel winners are either born or live in Africa!
You and I do not know the entire history of Africa, and what the people of Africa have achieved!
Africans have made contributions to medicine, and have won Nobel Prizes. These people include Max Theiler who was born in Africa and now is a resident in the US. Alan M. Cormack was also born in Africa and is also a resident in the US.
As Cicero said, if Africa develops an economy, and an affiant one, people in Africa will have a much better chance of contributing to the world!
Also it should not matter if the African people have or have not contributed to the world as much of the rest of us, they are human just like us, and deserve a better way of life.
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