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JP
Member/DJ
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Posted: Wed Jan 9th, 2008 02:59 pm |
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Coyote wrote: I had a friend with an elderly cat going into kidney failure. She gave the cat fluids at home via IV. It wasn't that difficult. The vet provided her with bags of solution and the needle and tubing, and cats have a lot of loose skin on the top of the neck. Her cat didn't mind it or fight it and being at home - she wasn't afraid. If she's not eating you could also try meat babyfood - it's highly digestable and they'll often eat it when they won't eat other stuff...
OK.. a few tips might be handy & (deep respect.. by the way.. for your friends love & stable ability to provide an I.V)
Force Feeding Tools: you need to buy or find a: Staff mixer, a pack of syringe with no needles and a large bath towel.
Protocol: There is never a real need to buy A/D canned food, etc, which is a ready made puree with high protein and rather expensive (you still have to mix water with it to function so it also saves you no time). all you need is a regular can of catfood, perhaps a piece of boiled chicken & the water the chicken was boiled in. take your three elements & simply use your staff mixer until you have created a 'puree' (thin enough to make it good to fill your syringe= no lumps) you can make up to 4 portions with this method, from one can of catfood.. so bung the rest in the fridge for later use. (never feed a cat 'fridge cold food' so please always leave it out of the fridge for a good hour before using..)
Now that the food is ready we can get our large bath towel and gently secure/hand wrap our cat into a 'cat mummy' or the same kind of human baby wrap after a bath. all that is seen is the head of the cat.. its now possible to hold the cat like a child in one hand on your lap and use the syringe with your free hand to feed. fill your syringe and squirt small amounts of our puree into the side or front of the cats mouth. never force too much in any one time or feeding session. we don't want them to choke or vomit..
Remember: always 'try to first offer' your puree for them to eat by their own accord around 30mins after the I.V has been administered.. because cats tend to feel much better after an I.V and this might induce them to eat alone!
Last edited on Wed Jan 9th, 2008 04:50 pm by JP
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Rightwingnut
Member
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Posted: Wed Jan 9th, 2008 03:03 pm |
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| The breeder I got Liam from said to not get his shots for a while. I'm wondering why she said that. (I guess I could've asked). Also he was born Sept 23. Do you think I've waited too long to get his shots? (I got him around the 2nd week of December) Another thing, how young is too young to get neutered?
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JP
Member/DJ
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Posted: Wed Jan 9th, 2008 03:23 pm |
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BlueGTO wrote: Also, what is your opinion on hydro therapy with the cat with luxating patellas. Just kind of training him to walk in a warm bath tub for about 5 minutes every few days. He is being clicker trained, so that would just be another step. I wonder if it would make his legs feel a little better.
Hydro therapy rocks! the biggest problem with this therapy is cats don't tend to like water & it can cause more stress than therapy.. some don't, some tolerate. this therapy should only be used long after the two operations have been conducted because inactivity including climbing, springing/jumping are very detrimental to a speedy recovery.
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JP
Member/DJ
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Posted: Wed Jan 9th, 2008 04:26 pm |
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Coyote wrote: I like this idea - great thread 
I have a problem that I'm hoping others might have experienced and can offer some ideas for. I am fostering a dog which I may end up adopting as she has some issues both healthwise and tempermentwise that may make her tricky for the average home. The behavioral issues I can work with but the health thing requires some research on my part.
She is almost 2 yrs old and was diagnosed by her previous adopter's vet with protein losing enteropathy/lymphagiectasia after months of diarreah and weight loss. Parasites were checked for (positive for hookworm and clostridium) and treated for. The diagnosis was via laboratory stool sample testing at Texas A&M that showed protein leakage and bloodwork (though the bloodwork did not actually show low protein but did have low neu and wbc I think). He recommended two further tests to rule out a microvascular liver problem. Since she is due in March for check up and bloodwork, I plan to see an internal medicine specialist for a second opinion and follow up tests but in the meantime I have some questions.
Right now she is in good shape. She was stabilized by the vet, she's still a little thin but has a good healthy coat and energy level and I think she might be putting on a little weight. She is currently on SciDiet ID, supplemented with lowfat cottage cheese, pet tabs and eggwhites. She gets hypoallergenic treats and the vet said she can have small amounts of cheese and peanut butter. She needs large quantities of highly digestable protein and low fat, spread out in 3 or so small meals.
My questions are several:
I would like to get her off the ID - I don't care for science diet that much, and it's pretty pricey. I can supplement her with a home cooked diet but I would like to keep her on a certain portion of kibble and commercial treats. Any ideas on what might work in terms of digestability?
One of the anomolies is that she is kind of young to have this disease - it usually shows up in middle aged dogs, nor is she one of the breeds with a predisposition for it (she's an Australian Shepherd). Are there other things this could be that might not have as serious a management issue and prognosis as lymphagiectasia?
In terms of fat - if she has lymphagiectasia - she has to be limited to medium chain triglycerides (MCT's) as much as possible. Would peanut butter qualify as that? Are there other things that contain it that could be used?
She's really a neat dog - funny too
This question requires I do more research: But in short.. I'd like to know what the March results are first.
It would be unethical to offer you a diet plan until you & I, know conclusively what is the true enemy at work here..
Question: what do her feces look like these days?
If you weigh her weekly from now on.. we will quickly know if she is improving.. pick her up & stand on your bathroom scales.. deduct your # & we will have her weekly weight..
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Coyote
Member
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Posted: Wed Jan 9th, 2008 04:46 pm |
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JP wrote: This question requires I do more research: But in short.. I'd like to know what the March results are first.
It would be unethical to offer you a diet plan until you & I, know conclusively what is the true enemy at work here..
Question: what do her feces look like these days?
If you weigh her weekly from now on.. we will quickly know if she is improving.. pick her up & stand on your bathroom scales.. deduct your # & we will have her weekly weight..
I may try to move her bloodwork forward a month just to get an idea of what we're dealing with - I hate waiting two months. She was loose when she first got here a week and a half a go (but she was also probably stressed from transport and change of homes etc). It was unformed but not total liquid. I haven't checked lately (she is one of those that goes off in the far corner and high weeds of the yard to do her business) - but I will check and see this evening and get a weekly weight on her. The original vet just faxed me her records as well which I am trying to make sense of (vets write like doctors).
Thanks!
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Coyote
Member
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Posted: Wed Jan 9th, 2008 04:48 pm |
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JP wrote: Coyote wrote: I had a friend with an elderly cat going into kidney failure. She gave the cat fluids at home via IV. It wasn't that difficult. The vet provided her with bags of solution and the needle and tubing, and cats have a lot of loose skin on the top of the neck. Her cat didn't mind it or fight it and being at home - she wasn't afraid. If she's not eating you could also try meat babyfood - it's highly digestable and they'll often eat it when they won't eat other stuff...
OK.. a few tips might be handy for your friend.. (deep respect.. by the way.. for their love & ability to provide an I.V)
Force Feeding Tools: you need to buy or find a: Staff mixer, a pack of syringe with no needles and a large bath towel.
Protocol: There is never a real need to buy A/D canned food, etc, which is a ready made puree with high protein and rather expensive (you still have to mix water with it to function so it also saves you no time). all you need is a regular can of catfood, perhaps a piece of boiled chicken & the water the chicken was boiled in. take your three elements & simply use your staff mixer until you have created a 'puree' (thin enough to make it good to fill your syringe= no lumps) you can make up to 4 portions with this method, from one can of catfood.. so bung the rest in the fridge for later use. (never feed a cat 'fridge cold food' so please always leave it out of the fridge for a good hour before using..)
Now that the food is ready we can get our large bath towel and gently secure/hand wrap our cat into a 'cat mummy' or the same kind of human baby wrap after a bath. all that is seen is the head of the cat.. its now possible to hold the cat like a child in one hand on your lap and use the syringe with your free hand to feed. fill your syringe and squirt small amounts of our puree into the side or front of the cats mouth. never force too much in any one time or feeding session. we don't want them to choke or vomit..
Remember: always 'try to first offer' your puree for them to eat by their own accord around 30mins after the I.V has been administered.. because cats tend to feel much better after an I.V and this might induce them to eat alone!
Thank you - I will pass this on to her. She has about 8 cats, of which 3 are geriatric so this will be helpful.
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JP
Member/DJ
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Posted: Wed Jan 9th, 2008 05:14 pm |
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Coyote wrote: JP wrote: Coyote wrote: I had a friend with an elderly cat going into kidney failure. She gave the cat fluids at home via IV. It wasn't that difficult. The vet provided her with bags of solution and the needle and tubing, and cats have a lot of loose skin on the top of the neck. Her cat didn't mind it or fight it and being at home - she wasn't afraid. If she's not eating you could also try meat babyfood - it's highly digestable and they'll often eat it when they won't eat other stuff...
OK.. a few tips might be handy for your friend.. (deep respect.. by the way.. for their love & ability to provide an I.V)
Force Feeding Tools: you need to buy or find a: Staff mixer, a pack of syringe with no needles and a large bath towel.
Protocol: There is never a real need to buy A/D canned food, etc, which is a ready made puree with high protein and rather expensive (you still have to mix water with it to function so it also saves you no time). all you need is a regular can of catfood, perhaps a piece of boiled chicken & the water the chicken was boiled in. take your three elements & simply use your staff mixer until you have created a 'puree' (thin enough to make it good to fill your syringe= no lumps) you can make up to 4 portions with this method, from one can of catfood.. so bung the rest in the fridge for later use. (never feed a cat 'fridge cold food' so please always leave it out of the fridge for a good hour before using..)
Now that the food is ready we can get our large bath towel and gently secure/hand wrap our cat into a 'cat mummy' or the same kind of human baby wrap after a bath. all that is seen is the head of the cat.. its now possible to hold the cat like a child in one hand on your lap and use the syringe with your free hand to feed. fill your syringe and squirt small amounts of our puree into the side or front of the cats mouth. never force too much in any one time or feeding session. we don't want them to choke or vomit..
Remember: always 'try to first offer' your puree for them to eat by their own accord around 30mins after the I.V has been administered.. because cats tend to feel much better after an I.V and this might induce them to eat alone!
Thank you - I will pass this on to her. She has about 8 cats, of which 3 are geriatric so this will be helpful.
I slightly edit for her.. K/D canned food which is for kidney patients is highly relevant but the slightly less expensive dry K/D food can be (take a hand full of the dry) left in small amount of warm water & pureed for the same feeding process & is just the same.. again.. water is a dehydrated/kidney cats best friend.. cutting costs is a cat/pet lovers other best friend.. is it not?
Question: 8 cats is a last # in her case for now.. right?..
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Coyote
Member
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Posted: Wed Jan 9th, 2008 09:11 pm |
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JP wrote: Coyote wrote: JP wrote: Coyote wrote: I had a friend with an elderly cat going into kidney failure. She gave the cat fluids at home via IV. It wasn't that difficult. The vet provided her with bags of solution and the needle and tubing, and cats have a lot of loose skin on the top of the neck. Her cat didn't mind it or fight it and being at home - she wasn't afraid. If she's not eating you could also try meat babyfood - it's highly digestable and they'll often eat it when they won't eat other stuff...
OK.. a few tips might be handy for your friend.. (deep respect.. by the way.. for their love & ability to provide an I.V)
Force Feeding Tools: you need to buy or find a: Staff mixer, a pack of syringe with no needles and a large bath towel.
Protocol: There is never a real need to buy A/D canned food, etc, which is a ready made puree with high protein and rather expensive (you still have to mix water with it to function so it also saves you no time). all you need is a regular can of catfood, perhaps a piece of boiled chicken & the water the chicken was boiled in. take your three elements & simply use your staff mixer until you have created a 'puree' (thin enough to make it good to fill your syringe= no lumps) you can make up to 4 portions with this method, from one can of catfood.. so bung the rest in the fridge for later use. (never feed a cat 'fridge cold food' so please always leave it out of the fridge for a good hour before using..)
Now that the food is ready we can get our large bath towel and gently secure/hand wrap our cat into a 'cat mummy' or the same kind of human baby wrap after a bath. all that is seen is the head of the cat.. its now possible to hold the cat like a child in one hand on your lap and use the syringe with your free hand to feed. fill your syringe and squirt small amounts of our puree into the side or front of the cats mouth. never force too much in any one time or feeding session. we don't want them to choke or vomit..
Remember: always 'try to first offer' your puree for them to eat by their own accord around 30mins after the I.V has been administered.. because cats tend to feel much better after an I.V and this might induce them to eat alone!
Thank you - I will pass this on to her. She has about 8 cats, of which 3 are geriatric so this will be helpful.
I slightly edit for her.. K/D canned food which is for kidney patients is highly relevant but the slightly less expensive dry K/D food can be (take a hand full of the dry) left in small amount of warm water & pureed for the same feeding process & is just the same.. again.. water is a dehydrated/kidney cats best friend.. cutting costs is a cat/pet lovers other best friend.. is it not?
Question: 8 cats is a last # in her case for now.. right?..
Yes
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JP
Member/DJ
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Posted: Thu Jan 10th, 2008 07:22 am |
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I need to provide a special food list to 'confirm International recognition' with my dutch feeding list for all you four footing folk to "confirm or conflict" with: (thanks in advance if you need to conflict with this description list provided.)
A/D: kittens/cats who need extra care/bad eaters/good for force feeding as a medium.
C/D: bladder problems.
D/D: Food allergic
I/D: anti diarrhea (back to your vet if it fails to harden things up within days)
K/D: specialised in kidney. (cats under 3yrs need a supplement to replace the extra protein missing)
P/D: Nutrient rich and great for sick kittens/cats (emergency force feed medium)
S/D: Urinal problems.
R/D: Obesity control.
W/D: Feces (soft problems)
Warning: Please, never just go to the specialist petshop and buy these food supplements before previously taking advice from your vet.
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JP
Member/DJ
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Posted: Thu Jan 10th, 2008 07:44 am |
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Rightwingnut wrote: The breeder I got Liam from said to not get his shots for a while. I'm wondering why she said that. (I guess I could've asked). Also he was born Sept 23. Do you think I've waited too long to get his shots? (I got him around the 2nd week of December) Another thing, how young is too young to get neutered?
The reason to get shots later in a kittens life is due to a possible 'bad reaction' that a small cat might have difficulty in defending.
6mths of age is a good window for castration..
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JP
Member/DJ
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Posted: Thu Jan 10th, 2008 08:02 am |
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Coyote wrote: JP wrote: This question requires I do more research: But in short.. I'd like to know what the March results are first.
It would be unethical to offer you a diet plan until you & I, know conclusively what is the true enemy at work here..
Question: what do her feces look like these days?
If you weigh her weekly from now on.. we will quickly know if she is improving.. pick her up & stand on your bathroom scales.. deduct your # & we will have her weekly weight..
I may try to move her bloodwork forward a month just to get an idea of what we're dealing with - I hate waiting two months. She was loose when she first got here a week and a half a go (but she was also probably stressed from transport and change of homes etc). It was unformed but not total liquid. I haven't checked lately (she is one of those that goes off in the far corner and high weeds of the yard to do her business) - but I will check and see this evening and get a weekly weight on her. The original vet just faxed me her records as well which I am trying to make sense of (vets write like doctors).
Thanks!
Please keep me posted and continue to monitor her toilet work.. it will show us if she is really getting better! bad feces is nearly always closely related to this condition. you are welcome to post the (fax=scan= The file size should not exceed 102400 bytes) info you received regarding the lady in question.. even if you don't know what it all means, I might be able to decipher it for you..
Side note: It's possible her lack of stress & the love you share with her is creating a boost to her immune system & good feel factor.. Keep up the good work & time will fly..
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JP
Member/DJ
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Posted: Thu Jan 10th, 2008 10:12 am |
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Question/Debate of the month: Jan08
Vets cost too much in general and seem to run a monopoly?
Vets study for seven+- years to become practicing veterinary surgeons. I can understand the time served should be financially rewarding. however, it would seem that a price monopoly is at play between vets that has no control or benefit to the clients they serve. I have personally seen a price list of basic & specialized animal narcotics from a distributor and the recommended retail versus overhead costs. It seems that vets make up there own price which can be well over the recommended retail. medical costs charged never seem to be competitive & always seem to high. Is this familiar with your local vets or just found in The Netherlands?
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BlueGTO
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| Posts: | 146 |
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Posted: Thu Jan 10th, 2008 02:30 pm |
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JP wrote: Question/Debate of the month: Jan08
Vets cost too much in general and seem to run a monopoly?
Vets study for seven+- years to become practicing veterinary surgeons. I can understand the time served should be financially rewarding. however, it would seem that a price monopoly is at play between vets that has no control or benefit to the clients they serve. I have personally seen a price list of basic & specialized animal narcotics from a distributor and the recommended retail versus overhead costs. It seems that vets make up there own price which can be well over the recommended retail. medical costs charged never seem to be competitive & always seem to high. Is this familiar with your local vets or just found in The Netherlands?
Oh, it's the same way here. What I don't get is when you go to a vet school and they charge more than a regular vet? I mean, I am letting your students learn from my pet and you charge nearly twice as much. I know the students aren't getting paid and I know tuition sucks, so why so much? I imagine between tuition, federal $$, and $$ from alumni, it is at least halfway covered... They do have nice equipment though, but like 80% of the staff is a student doing the work!
For us to see the emergency specialist a few days ago, it was $95 just to look at the vet, $130 for x-rays, $22.50 for 4 days worth of medicine, and $18.00 for 1 shot of the medicine they sent me home with. We have spent almost $3000 in vet bills on him and it costs $1500/knee with the other one.
It would have cost right at $1000 for the specialist to keep him over night. $400 in tests from her, $350 for the echo IN CASE he possibly might need surgery, and the rest in overnight care. Thank goodness he's eating alittle! We've been feeding him kitten glop in the evenings...high calorie and it hydrates It seems that is when his tummy feels the worst (and when his nausea medicine wears off).
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JP
Member/DJ
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Posted: Thu Jan 10th, 2008 03:47 pm |
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The first weekly radio show dedicated to this thread "Pets Square" will be broadcast tonight 9pm. (around 4hrs from now) via Perspectives radio station mediumrare.com)
Hope you all tune in. subject matter will be based on questions asked this week.
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BlueGTO
Member
| Joined: | Tue Sep 25th, 2007 |
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| Posts: | 146 |
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Posted: Thu Jan 10th, 2008 07:37 pm |
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JP wrote: The first weekly radio show dedicated to this thread "Pets Square" will be broadcast tonight 9pm. (around 4hrs from now) via Perspectives radio station mediumrare.com)
Hope you all tune in. subject matter will be based on questions asked this week.
Would love to listen, but we are going back to my regular vet today. My boy isn't eating much and is being lethargic today  . GOOD LUCK!
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Rightwingnut
Member
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Posted: Thu Jan 10th, 2008 07:40 pm |
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MB wrote: Hi there and good day, JP. I had hoped to find you somewhere.
First of all... there is no vet. So squash that idea right there.
Miss Whitney is 17 years young, and has finally quit eating her food. I am guessing that she will die before too much longer. What can I do to ensure that she is not miserable during this time? She still purrs when I pet her, and enjoys snuggling. She rarely meows - never has much. She has touched neither food nor water in 24 hours. Last night she staggered a bit while settling down. I just want her to be happy.
I'm so sorry to hear about Miss Whitney.
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Coyote
Member
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Posted: Thu Jan 10th, 2008 09:46 pm |
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BlueGTO wrote: JP wrote: Question/Debate of the month: Jan08
Vets cost too much in general and seem to run a monopoly?
Vets study for seven+- years to become practicing veterinary surgeons. I can understand the time served should be financially rewarding. however, it would seem that a price monopoly is at play between vets that has no control or benefit to the clients they serve. I have personally seen a price list of basic & specialized animal narcotics from a distributor and the recommended retail versus overhead costs. It seems that vets make up there own price which can be well over the recommended retail. medical costs charged never seem to be competitive & always seem to high. Is this familiar with your local vets or just found in The Netherlands?
Oh, it's the same way here. What I don't get is when you go to a vet school and they charge more than a regular vet? I mean, I am letting your students learn from my pet and you charge nearly twice as much. I know the students aren't getting paid and I know tuition sucks, so why so much? I imagine between tuition, federal $$, and $$ from alumni, it is at least halfway covered... They do have nice equipment though, but like 80% of the staff is a student doing the work!
For us to see the emergency specialist a few days ago, it was $95 just to look at the vet, $130 for x-rays, $22.50 for 4 days worth of medicine, and $18.00 for 1 shot of the medicine they sent me home with. We have spent almost $3000 in vet bills on him and it costs $1500/knee with the other one.
It would have cost right at $1000 for the specialist to keep him over night. $400 in tests from her, $350 for the echo IN CASE he possibly might need surgery, and the rest in overnight care. Thank goodness he's eating alittle! We've been feeding him kitten glop in the evenings...high calorie and it hydrates It seems that is when his tummy feels the worst (and when his nausea medicine wears off).
Specialists do cost a lot - I have to take one of my dogs to an opthamalic specialist - the initial visit was over $200, but fortunately the regular checks are much less, but his eye drops are $78 a bottle. For some things I've taken my animals to Ohio State U. which has a Veterinary School - I think it's less expensive and as good (just further away) then the specialists. For complicated things - it's worth it to get a specialist opinion though. I can't decide which I should take Jessie too.
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Coyote
Member
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Posted: Thu Jan 10th, 2008 09:53 pm |
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JP wrote: Please keep me posted and continue to monitor her toilet work.. it will show us if she is really getting better! bad feces is nearly always closely related to this condition. you are welcome to post the (fax=scan= The file size should not exceed 102400 bytes) info you received regarding the lady in question.. even if you don't know what it all means, I might be able to decipher it for you..
Side note: It's possible her lack of stress & the love you share with her is creating a boost to her immune system & good feel factor.. Keep up the good work & time will fly..
I had to put my hubby on poop patrol as he is there in daylight hours (I leave early and get home when it's getting dark). He is less then thrilled and claims he can't find "it" after she went. I'll have to check. I can read the records but some of the writing is bad. I will have to show them to the specialist. I did find from the records they were feeding her less then I do - 1/2 c ID 3x a day. This does not seem like much for a dog that should way 35 lbs and is not absorbing everything. I've been feeding her 1c am with 1/3 c cottage cheese or eggwhites and the same in the evening. She also gets 1/2 c mid day with a little peanut butter. I don't think she's had diarreah, although I haven't seen the stool yet - she has no sign of it on her pantaloons. I think she's putting on some weight - will weigh her in a week and see - she has become very playful, emptying out the toybox and tossing toys to amuse herself so I think she feels ok
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JP
Member/DJ
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Posted: Thu Jan 10th, 2008 10:39 pm |
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Coyote wrote: JP wrote: Please keep me posted and continue to monitor her toilet work.. it will show us if she is really getting better! bad feces is nearly always closely related to this condition. you are welcome to post the (fax=scan= The file size should not exceed 102400 bytes) info you received regarding the lady in question.. even if you don't know what it all means, I might be able to decipher it for you..
Side note: It's possible her lack of stress & the love you share with her is creating a boost to her immune system & good feel factor.. Keep up the good work & time will fly..
I had to put my hubby on poop patrol as he is there in daylight hours (I leave early and get home when it's getting dark). He is less then thrilled and claims he can't find "it" after she went. I'll have to check. I can read the records but some of the writing is bad. I will have to show them to the specialist. I did find from the records they were feeding her less then I do - 1/2 c ID 3x a day. This does not seem like much for a dog that should way 35 lbs and is not absorbing everything. I've been feeding her 1c am with 1/3 c cottage cheese or eggwhites and the same in the evening. She also gets 1/2 c mid day with a little peanut butter. I don't think she's had diarreah, although I haven't seen the stool yet - she has no sign of it on her pantaloons. I think she's putting on some weight - will weigh her in a week and see - she has become very playful, emptying out the toybox and tossing toys to amuse herself so I think she feels ok
Ok.. but perhaps weigh Jessie this week so we have an early indicator for next weeks measurement.. I'd also like by next week at least a 4 day report on the feces condition. (sorry hubby)
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BlueGTO
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| Posts: | 146 |
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Posted: Thu Jan 10th, 2008 11:00 pm |
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| Good News. He doesn't have any abdominal tenderness, he doesn't seem to be dehydrated, but he still isn't eating. So we have him put away in the guest bedroom with a variety of foods. Hills Diet A/D, Innova Evo canned, 25 pieces of kibble, and 4 freeze dried chicken cat treats. You can already guess that he ate all 4 cat treats immediately. He licked the A/D a little, but now he's wanting out to play. He's been moping around all day and being lethargic and as soon as we come home, he wants to run around and play. Also, I had the vet go ahead and draw a CBC and chemistry panel, just to make sure. Oh, and his temp is normal, so they think the upchucked the string and that he is dealing with gastritis now from the irritation.
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