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ATTAburnsinHELL
Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 04:45 pm |
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In a number of threads this week alone I have counted five references to Barak Obama as "boy", "shoeshine boy" and "golden boy"
Just for the record, calling a black male adult a "boy" has been equal to calling him a "nigge*", especially by racists in the days of Jim Crow segregated south
"HEY BOY! YOU COME HERE BOY! I'M TALKING TO YOU BOY- GIT"
It was used as a form of degregation of his manhood. Fathers of whole families were referred to as "boy"
So as of late, there seems to be a flip attitiude around here towards reffering to obama as a 'boy"
I would like an opinion on this by a mod- that it should be considered a racial slur and not a mere slip of the tongue meaning something else
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ATTAburnsinHELL
Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 04:52 pm |
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tsk, excessive punctuation
fix?
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NW
Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 04:56 pm |
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Personally, I'd say this is not the sort of thing we should be moderating against - although, I'm open to other opinions.
Black people being offended by the "n-word"... yeah, I can see how that works. It's a very specific racist term, rarely used by white people except as a direct insult.
Black people being offended by the word "boy"... no, I'm sorry. They should get over it.
Apart from anything else, how would we tell exactly what the intent is of somebody making such a comment? "Golden boy", for instance, is a frequently-used term for any (relatively) young man who enjoys moderate success in his field; Tony Blair frequently used to be described as New Labour's "Golden Boy" in the early days of coming to power, for instance (and he's old enough to be my father - although, that's still comparatively young from a British Prime Minister). Given Obama's successes so far in the Primaries, the same term could well be applied to him without any particular racist connetations.
I'd also caution any Obama supporters to avoid continual reference to all/most criticisms of Obama as being intrinsically "racist". I don't doubt that the prospect of having to call a black man "Mr President" is absolutely terrifying to a certain segment of the American population (they're well represented on Perspectives, for instance), but that doesn't necessarily mean that everybody ragging on Obama is doing so because they're racist. Insisting that this is the case will only harm Obama's image and that of his supporters, not help it in any way.
Best wishes,
--
Nightwalker.
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NW
Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 04:57 pm |
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ATTAburnsinHELL wrote: tsk, excessive punctuation
fix?
Just this once, then. And ONLY because you spotted it before I did, and I'd already responded in the thread... 
Best wishes,
--
Nightwalker.
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dem4life
Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 05:03 pm |
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| I've noticed the boy thing lately myself. It is racist. Make no mistake about it. I'm sure the powers that be will do the right thing...
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NW
Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 05:06 pm |
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dem4life wrote: I've noticed the boy thing lately myself. It is racist. Make no mistake about it. I'm sure the powers that be will do the right thing...
We don't generally ban people simply for being racists, as you know quite well. If we were to censor hate, it would simply move elsewhere.
Using certain specific racist terms, liable to cause great offence and therefore disrupt the flow of discussion on our boards, is a different matter.
And yes. We always do the right thing. I'm glad you recognise this to be the truth.
Best wishes,
--
Nightwalker.
Last edited on Thu Apr 10th, 2008 05:06 pm by NW
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ATTAburnsinHELL
Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 05:07 pm |
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NW wrote: Personally, I'd say this is not the sort of thing we should be moderating against - although, I'm open to other opinions.
Black people being offended by the "n-word"... yeah, I can see how that works. It's a very specific racist term, rarely used by white people except as a direct insult.
Black people being offended by the word "boy"... no, I'm sorry. They should get over it.
I think you are 100% WRONG. It aint up to you to tell someone to 'get over it' with the kind of history it involves. It's better judgement to realize and avoid going there
Since you are british you may not be that aquainted with some of the more, shall we say, colorful racial terms in the US
"Boy' is a really bad one. Highly offensive with a purpose to demean
If you refered to a black collegue over the age of 45 on a loading dock as "boy", you might very well end up with a "WHAT did you just call me?" and maybe a fist-fight
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dem4life
Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 05:14 pm |
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NW wrote: dem4life wrote: I've noticed the boy thing lately myself. It is racist. Make no mistake about it. I'm sure the powers that be will do the right thing...
We don't generally ban people simply for being racists, as you know quite well. If we were to censor hate, it would simply move elsewhere.
Using certain specific racist terms, liable to cause great offence and therefore disrupt the flow of discussion on our boards, is a different matter.
And yes. We always do the right thing. I'm glad you recognise this to be the truth.
Best wishes,
--
Nightwalker.
That's all you, boy...
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D
Moderator
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Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 05:34 pm |
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Golden boy is not offensive. If it is used and someone finds it offensive then they are looking for something to be offended about. Shoeshine boy is offensive but not in the way that n***** would be.
This is a very grey area Atta and if you had provided a link I could have done a better job of deciding if it was being used in the way you are describing. Seeing as I am from the south and I am quite familiar with the use of the term in the manner which you speak I would be happy to look at it.
NW, and example of a racist version of this, (and not one I would think they should just get over) is if I were talking to a member who I knew to be black such as Mal and I said.
"Boy, you are a damn fool. Go back to working on your night at the Apollo reject routines."
Or "Boy, what are you doing back here. Who let you off your ban for being stupid"
Last edited on Thu Apr 10th, 2008 05:36 pm by D
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dem4life
Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 05:37 pm |
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D wrote: Golden boy is not offensive. If it is used and someone finds it offensive then they are looking for something to be offended about. Shoeshine boy is offensive but not in the way that n***** would be.
This is a very gray area Atta and if you had provided a link I could have done a better job of deciding if it was being used in the way you are describing. Seeing as I am from the south and I am quite familiar with the use of the term in the manner which you speak I would be happy to look at it.
NW, and example of a racist version of this, (and not one I would think they should just get over) is if I were talking to a member who I knew to be black such as Mal and I said.
"Boy, you are a damn fool. Go back to working on your night at the Apollo reject routines."
Or "Boy, what are you doing back here. Who let you off your ban for being stupid"
I agree that Golden Boy is not racist. Referring to Obama as a shoeshine boy is. I saw that the other day and damned if I can remember what thread it was on...
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VT-R
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Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 05:46 pm |
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Obama supporters are getting really nervous at this point.
Who would have predicted a few months ago that the Clinton Machine would have been this effective?
I thought he had it in the bag.
This is starting to get really fun and interesting to watch.
Politics is awesome.
I love ya ATTA, but I think 'boy' is a bit of a stretch as far as what is and isn't acceptable.
I still want to see your novel though, you creative bastard. ![[usa]](/forums/themes/default/usa.gif)
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Paula Ticks
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Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 07:03 pm |
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I don't like any term directed at a minority with intent to insult. I don't use them. I come from a different age, before civil rights, before affirmative action and before voting rights. But, I don't think it is possible to moderate every potentially racist word posters are going to throw out at Obama. To be fair, there are negative slurs used against people based on location, lifestyle, ethnicity etc. If Huckabee were the Republican nominee, I am sure we would be reading "cracker", "hillbilly" "redneck" etc. and his supporters would be upset. F.A.Q. states:
Do we tolerate hate?
We detest hate, and fighting it is one of our primary objectives on this forum. If hate was censored here however we could not fight it because it would move elsewhere. It therefore will not be, with the exception of vulgar, user-insulting, or explicitly sordid or violent material. The racial, religious, and orientational insulting terms n***** or c*** (meaning dark-skinned such as black or Arab), k*** (meaning jew), f** or d*** (meaning gay) are considered sordid and always result in bans if used offensively. Other such terms are generally vulgar.
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Sail_the_Web
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Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 07:15 pm |
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| Difficult to judge. Yet: It somehow implies a master-servant relationship between two ethnic clusters; given the distant past, not everybody might like to hear that.
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Tsalagi1
Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 07:31 pm |
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Listen...Indians out west are typically called "Prairie-n word"..if I can tolerate some small minded individual also calling me Geronimo, Chief, Heap Big Injun, Crazy Horse, Cigar Indian...etc..etc...I think we can dispense with the PC version of terminology that has erupted over the last 2 decades.
Also Atta..in reference to your own calling me out on our discussion of McCain's age. I was frankly irked to have you instantly toss down the "race" card when the word "boy" and "Obama" are put together in the same instance...My own father still says "Boy...get your ass in gear"...now...is my father being racist or is he just being a more mature man speaking to one his junior?
I reference boy and Obama as he is literally decades younger then McCain and the terminology used was in line with the topic of McCain's age.
Atta..you have tons of passion...a good heart, you're intelligent..and in many cases you've managed to win in many debates on lots of topics...but in this matter you are flat out wrong.
Last edited on Thu Apr 10th, 2008 07:32 pm by Tsalagi1
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dc-2
Moderator
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Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 07:45 pm |
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"boy" WAS a demeaning term in the south at the height of the civil rights movement. I doubt, however, that it has been commonly used in that way for 2 or 3 decades. This appears to be an anacronistic concern.
"Golden Boy" is often a positive, and sometimes used in ridicule, but is not racist at all.
"shoe-shine-boy" is a racist term, meaning a cheerful and appropriately subserviant young black man or teen. It is dismissive of the intelligence and seriousness/gravitas of the target. It seems to be a particularly inappropriate term to be used by RACISTS in describing a black man running for president. As a critique, it would only be appropriate for a black partisan, who thought Obama was not "black" enough, and would be the equivalent of "oreo".
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ATTAburnsinHELL
Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 08:02 pm |
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You know what, it's all up to you
If you wish to degrade my candidate and call him little double-meaning things like"errand boy' or 'your boy' - hey, says more about you than it does about him
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ATTAburnsinHELL
Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 08:08 pm |
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Tsalagi1 wrote: Listen...Indians out west are typically called "Prairie-n word"..if I can tolerate some small minded individual also calling me Geronimo, Chief, Heap Big Injun, Crazy Horse, Cigar Indian...etc..etc...I think we can dispense with the PC version of terminology that has erupted over the last 2 decades. You know what, those would be all considered SYI and racial smears. You're not supposed to tolerate this, if not for your own but for others like you
Also Atta..in reference to your own calling me out on our discussion of McCain's age. I was frankly irked to have you instantly toss down the "race" card when the word "boy" and "Obama" are put together in the same instance...My own father still says "Boy...get your ass in gear"...now...is my father being racist or is he just being a more mature man speaking to one his junior?
are you Barak Obama's father?
I reference boy and Obama as he is literally decades younger then McCain and the terminology used was in line with the topic of McCain's age.
And you went all the way to 'boy". He may be decades younger, but he is not a boy
Atta..you have tons of passion...a good heart, you're intelligent..and in many cases you've managed to win in many debates on lots of topics...but in this matter you are flat out wrong.
No, it's more that you don't get it
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ATTAburnsinHELL
Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 08:14 pm |
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VT-R wrote: Obama supporters are getting really nervous at this point.
Who would have predicted a few months ago that the Clinton Machine would have been this effective?
I thought he had it in the bag. OK, your turn Aint no sweating the Obama tidal wave here, i got my surf board ready but this has nothing to do with polls
This is starting to get really fun and interesting to watch.
Politics is awesome.
I love ya ATTA, but I think 'boy' is a bit of a stretch as far as what is and isn't acceptable.
I knew you'd say something because you did the 'golden-boy' one, which is pretty tame and probably innocent in intentions..BUT it's starting to pop up all over threads and im throwing a red flag down on this one that people are starting to step over the line- ala' boy and shoeshine boy. next it'll be lawn jockey gotta draw the line somewhere
I still want to see your novel though, you creative bastard.
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meanspirited
Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 08:36 pm |
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for someone who defined racism so narrowly in a previous thread, atta sure is quick to scream racism when his boy bammers is mentioned.
ATTAburnsinHELL wrote: Racism is the systematic repression of certain racial groups through segregation, aparteid, JiM Crow, ethnic cleansing,and redlining
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madmex1966
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Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 09:05 pm |
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It depends on the content and the person saying it. It is more difficult to judge it when you dont really know the other members on a personal level. The poster would have to have a posting history that exhibits racist attitudes before I would feel confident to say it was meant in a racially derogatory manner.
Shoeshine boy is a different matter...that I would deem to be a racial slur without the history.
I take Your boy Obama the same as I would Your boy Bush...Last edited on Thu Apr 10th, 2008 09:07 pm by madmex1966
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