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WA Mozart
Member
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Posted: Thu Sep 10th, 2009 04:52 pm |
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maxim wrote: WA Mozart wrote: One day, you should take a nice course on economics. I would highly recommend that you read some of the thoughts by one noted Austrian, Frederich Augustus von Hayek. Along with other notables such as Milton Friedman, he is one of the most important economists of the 20th century. His book, Road to Serfdom, should be mandatory in every school room. Only having read/studied such economists, should one be able to comment on the worthiness of capitalism.
Mozart
Nice generic answer there, Mozart. Do you have it ready to copy/paste somewhere when you don't have arguments of your own? For the record, I first became familiar with Friedman and von Hayek's works in University where they were actually part of my education, and I took great time and pleasure in writing less than favorable analyses on these two particular authors' less than brilliant theories. Add another religo-capitalist pseudo-authority, Adam Smith to the mix, and you have the trifecta of my favorite Capitalist punching bags.
Er, and, what in your knowledgable opinion concerning classic economics (  ) would be the 'best' economic system you could imagine?
What's your ideal model?
Mozart
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The Engine
Member
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Posted: Thu Sep 10th, 2009 05:54 pm |
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And also, something which is related to the Dollar's coming collapse (boy I really hate to say that!)  Is the fact that the interest rate the USA is paying on its debt has been climbing on a daily basis. As follows:
8/28/2009- 2.64% $310,880,000, which is 31% of tax revenue
8/31/2009-2.68% $315,106,000 31.5% of tax revenue
9/4/2009-2.71% $320,701,000 32% of tax revenue
9/10/2009-2.78% APR, $328,437,000 32.8% of tax revenue
So what does this tell us? 1) The APR on America's debt is climbing and climbing fast. 2) The percentage of US tax dollars consumed by the interest on the debt is also climbing at an astronomical rate-from 31% to 32.8% in less than two weeks! At this rate, the interest on the debt will consume about 90% of all tax revenue in one year!
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WA Mozart
Member
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Posted: Thu Sep 10th, 2009 06:21 pm |
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The Engine wrote: And also, something which is related to the Dollar's coming collapse (boy I really hate to say that!) Is the fact that the interest rate the USA is paying on its debt has been climbing on a daily basis. As follows:
8/28/2009- 2.64% $310,880,000, which is 31% of tax revenue
8/31/2009-2.68% $315,106,000 31.5% of tax revenue
9/4/2009-2.71% $320,701,000 32% of tax revenue
9/10/2009-2.78% APR, $328,437,000 32.8% of tax revenue
So what does this tell us? 1) The APR on America's debt is climbing and climbing fast. 2) The percentage of US tax dollars consumed by the interest on the debt is also climbing at an astronomical rate-from 31% to 32.8% in less than two weeks! At this rate, the interest on the debt will consume about 90% of all tax revenue in one year!
Are those numbers for real?
Frightening, ...simply incomprehensible. We're living in a dream-like world. Last night the Chucklehead-in-Chief stood before Congress and told the American people that he wishes to start a new government program which he says will only cost 900 billion dollars or so, but his own Congessional Budget Office says will cost 1.6 Trillion. The insanity here is simply chilling. Really? C'mon. When historians look back at this era they will shake their heads in wonderment at a buffoon elected as president, who in the middle of one of the greatest economic crises in its history, proposes to spend even more money on a government run program? What? Did I hear that right? Wow. It boggles the mind. Is this really happening?
I would highly recommend to readers of this thread that you pay attention to these numbers. They may come back to haunt us all,..... And, ..and, you read it here first.
Mozart
Last edited on Thu Sep 10th, 2009 06:25 pm by WA Mozart
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George Aligator
Member
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Posted: Thu Sep 10th, 2009 07:31 pm |
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The Engine wrote: robertr2000 wrote: O.Bender wrote: Mozart, just a remark, Fed has already started openly buying treasury bills, if I'm not mistaken at least 300 bln. And, what is more essential, it did so secretly for years - if you look at who was buying TB, very significant share is of various offshores, which are used be the Fed for this purpose.
And, what you pointed on correctly, monetizing the debt will really be the tool to start hyperinflation, but it will be done in much more a bigger scale. Not only TB will be bought by the Fed, but huge amounts of dollars will be granted (of course as credits) to banks-founders of the Fed (let's not forget that Fed is a private company founded by a bunch of banks who really rule the World). So, these dollars will be used to buy everything, all falling companies (via buying their debts), houses, everything - most of all debts will be bought, most of property in the US and much of the World will be accumulated in hands of these banks. Having so much newly printed money poured in the market means immediate start of hyperinflation, which will reduce these banks' debt the the Fed to insignificant amount. But the property will be theirs.
The end.
Hello NWO.
Not that "I" believe any of it ![[usa]](/forums/themes/default/usa.gif) 
And for anyone who is not familiar with the term, whenever a nation purchases its own debt, it is called monetizing the debt and it's not a good thing. It has never worked before and seems to always lead to hyperinflation.
Does anyone know a single historical example where it has actually worked?
You talk about hyperinflation as if it were a bad thing. What sort of unpleasant effect do you fear from hyperinflation? It seems to me a swift and bloodless way to overthrow the capitalist oppressor by completely Constitutional means. Please elucidate...
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maxim
Member
| Joined: | Sun Oct 2nd, 2005 |
| Location: | Sofia, Bulgaria |
| Posts: | 8928 |
| Status: |
Offline
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Posted: Thu Sep 10th, 2009 08:47 pm |
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WA Mozart wrote: Er, and, what in your knowledgable opinion concerning classic economics ( ) would be the 'best' economic system you could imagine?
What's your ideal model?
Mozart
An economic model alone isn't enough; economics, much like politics, are merely an instrument intended to serve a social purpose - to improve lives and make society work better. Sadly, economics and politics are less scientific and more religious/ideological than they should be - they're stagnant, crude and revolve around often undeserving human authorities, hence the stagnant and imperfect models - Capitalism, Statism, Communism, Libertarianism, Liberalism, etc.
Therefore the best political-economic system for now would be a more adaptable, utilitarian and non-universalist model. This means the goal must be utilitarian (more happiness for more people), the range of application would be non-universalist (no model applies everywhere) and problems can be dealt with through a well-known concept - the scientific method (observation-hypothesis-test), instead of ideologically-driven theories. With these goals and methods in mind the system will vary in each different society and will constantly adapt to the changing environment.
This model will be neither laissez-faire, nor statist. With the utilitarian goal in mind, private enterprise will be allowed to operate freely in all fields where it can do a better job than government, regulated when there's unfair competition or when it causes public harm, or replaced by the government in areas where government can do a better job. Private ownership, as broad a concept as that is, will be respected unless it violates the aforementioned principles (for example, you can own a house and a business, but you can't own people, patents to genomes, or the cancer drug that could save millions of lives).
From there on you can make it anything from individualist to collectivist, as long as you follow an adaptable, utilitarian, non-universalist and scientific principle.
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George Aligator
Member
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Posted: Thu Sep 10th, 2009 11:10 pm |
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maxim wrote: WA Mozart wrote: Er, and, what in your knowledgable opinion concerning classic economics ( ) would be the 'best' economic system you could imagine?
What's your ideal model?
Mozart
An economic model alone isn't enough; economics, much like politics, are merely an instrument intended to serve a social purpose - to improve lives and make society work better. Sadly, economics and politics are less scientific and more religious/ideological than they should be - they're stagnant, crude and revolve around often undeserving human authorities, hence the stagnant and imperfect models - Capitalism, Statism, Communism, Libertarianism, Liberalism, etc.
Therefore the best political-economic system for now would be a more adaptable, utilitarian and non-universalist model. This means the goal must be utilitarian (more happiness for more people), the range of application would be non-universalist (no model applies everywhere) and problems can be dealt with through a well-known concept - the scientific method (observation-hypothesis-test), instead of ideologically-driven theories. With these goals and methods in mind the system will vary in each different society and will constantly adapt to the changing environment.
This model will be neither laissez-faire, nor statist. With the utilitarian goal in mind, private enterprise will be allowed to operate freely in all fields where it can do a better job than government, regulated when there's unfair competition or when it causes public harm, or replaced by the government in areas where government can do a better job. Private ownership, as broad a concept as that is, will be respected unless it violates the aforementioned principles (for example, you can own a house and a business, but you can't own people, patents to genomes, or the cancer drug that could save millions of lives).
From there on you can make it anything from individualist to collectivist, as long as you follow an adaptable, utilitarian, non-universalist and scientific principle.
The above is an inspiring paen to modern socialism as practiced in many Western democracies. It isn't an economic model because it doesn't address the thorny question of how resources are controlled.
Macroeconomics is a subsidiary of politics. Whoever controls the society's resources will control its law-making function and its instruments of coercion -- and vice-versa. Thinking about who will own what isn't meaningful until who decides what is established.
The above "model" is part of that world that will come about only when, as Plato said, kings become philosophers or philosophers become kings. So far, neither of these outcomes has happened.
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The Engine
Member
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Posted: Fri Sep 11th, 2009 12:03 pm |
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George Aligator wrote: The Engine wrote: robertr2000 wrote: O.Bender wrote: Mozart, just a remark, Fed has already started openly buying treasury bills, if I'm not mistaken at least 300 bln. And, what is more essential, it did so secretly for years - if you look at who was buying TB, very significant share is of various offshores, which are used be the Fed for this purpose.
And, what you pointed on correctly, monetizing the debt will really be the tool to start hyperinflation, but it will be done in much more a bigger scale. Not only TB will be bought by the Fed, but huge amounts of dollars will be granted (of course as credits) to banks-founders of the Fed (let's not forget that Fed is a private company founded by a bunch of banks who really rule the World). So, these dollars will be used to buy everything, all falling companies (via buying their debts), houses, everything - most of all debts will be bought, most of property in the US and much of the World will be accumulated in hands of these banks. Having so much newly printed money poured in the market means immediate start of hyperinflation, which will reduce these banks' debt the the Fed to insignificant amount. But the property will be theirs.
The end.
Hello NWO.
Not that "I" believe any of it
And for anyone who is not familiar with the term, whenever a nation purchases its own debt, it is called monetizing the debt and it's not a good thing. It has never worked before and seems to always lead to hyperinflation.
Does anyone know a single historical example where it has actually worked?
You talk about hyperinflation as if it were a bad thing. What sort of unpleasant effect do you fear from hyperinflation? It seems to me a swift and bloodless way to overthrow the capitalist oppressor by completely Constitutional means. Please elucidate...
I'm curious how anyone could think hyperinflation is a good thing.
There are numerous bad things which happen as a result of it, including the inability of the average person to purchase anything, including food (in the USSR, before the collapse of the nation, a loaf of bread cost a week's wages. Many grocery stores had only one or two loaves of bread on the shelf and little else).
For those who have money saved, their wealth is destroyed.
The only possible "up" side to hyperinflation is the ability for people to repay debt. However, for those who are owed money which they loaned out, the money they get in return is worth only a fraction of what it was when they loaned it.
Economic turmoil, in short, is a result of hyperinflation. Nations fall apart as a result of it. Look at what happened to the USSR or Zimbabwe or pre-Nazi Germany and you'll see just a few examples of the chaos caused by hyperinflation.
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George Aligator
Member
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Posted: Fri Sep 11th, 2009 01:00 pm |
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The Engine wrote: George Aligator wrote: The Engine wrote: robertr2000 wrote: O.Bender wrote: Mozart, just a remark, Fed has already started openly buying treasury bills, if I'm not mistaken at least 300 bln. And, what is more essential, it did so secretly for years - if you look at who was buying TB, very significant share is of various offshores, which are used be the Fed for this purpose.
And, what you pointed on correctly, monetizing the debt will really be the tool to start hyperinflation, but it will be done in much more a bigger scale. Not only TB will be bought by the Fed, but huge amounts of dollars will be granted (of course as credits) to banks-founders of the Fed (let's not forget that Fed is a private company founded by a bunch of banks who really rule the World). So, these dollars will be used to buy everything, all falling companies (via buying their debts), houses, everything - most of all debts will be bought, most of property in the US and much of the World will be accumulated in hands of these banks. Having so much newly printed money poured in the market means immediate start of hyperinflation, which will reduce these banks' debt the the Fed to insignificant amount. But the property will be theirs.
The end.
Hello NWO.
Not that "I" believe any of it
And for anyone who is not familiar with the term, whenever a nation purchases its own debt, it is called monetizing the debt and it's not a good thing. It has never worked before and seems to always lead to hyperinflation.
Does anyone know a single historical example where it has actually worked?
You talk about hyperinflation as if it were a bad thing. What sort of unpleasant effect do you fear from hyperinflation? It seems to me a swift and bloodless way to overthrow the capitalist oppressor by completely Constitutional means. Please elucidate...
I'm curious how anyone could think hyperinflation is a good thing.
There are numerous bad things which happen as a result of it, including the inability of the average person to purchase anything, including food (in the USSR, before the collapse of the nation, a loaf of bread cost a week's wages. Many grocery stores had only one or two loaves of bread on the shelf and little else).
For those who have money saved, their wealth is destroyed.
The only possible "up" side to hyperinflation is the ability for people to repay debt. However, for those who are owed money which they loaned out, the money they get in return is worth only a fraction of what it was when they loaned it.
Economic turmoil, in short, is a result of hyperinflation. Nations fall apart as a result of it. Look at what happened to the USSR or Zimbabwe or pre-Nazi Germany and you'll see just a few examples of the chaos caused by hyperinflation.
In economics there is no such critter as a purely bad thing. The ability of people to purchase depends on wealth production, not the M1 supply. The USSR example shows that in a command economy, government price control restricts purchasing power, that is all it shows.
Those who have money saved are called capitalists. The destruction of capital is a very good thing indeed for labor. That's what we Communists have been saying for years.
'You are correct that economic turmoil ensues -- it's less hurtful than the economic turmoil that comes from losing a war. Nations don't fall apart. Niether Zimbabwe nor the Weimar Republic ceased to exist from hyperinflation.
Hyperinflation is a high fever in the body of the economy. As in the human body, the fever serves to kill the invading disease. Hyperinflation is the healing fever than kills the bacillus of capitalism and sets the workers free. Bring it on! (I say this as a capitalist with a conscience.)
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The Engine
Member
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Posted: Fri Sep 11th, 2009 01:14 pm |
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George Aligator wrote: The Engine wrote: George Aligator wrote: The Engine wrote: robertr2000 wrote: O.Bender wrote: Mozart, just a remark, Fed has already started openly buying treasury bills, if I'm not mistaken at least 300 bln. And, what is more essential, it did so secretly for years - if you look at who was buying TB, very significant share is of various offshores, which are used be the Fed for this purpose.
And, what you pointed on correctly, monetizing the debt will really be the tool to start hyperinflation, but it will be done in much more a bigger scale. Not only TB will be bought by the Fed, but huge amounts of dollars will be granted (of course as credits) to banks-founders of the Fed (let's not forget that Fed is a private company founded by a bunch of banks who really rule the World). So, these dollars will be used to buy everything, all falling companies (via buying their debts), houses, everything - most of all debts will be bought, most of property in the US and much of the World will be accumulated in hands of these banks. Having so much newly printed money poured in the market means immediate start of hyperinflation, which will reduce these banks' debt the the Fed to insignificant amount. But the property will be theirs.
The end.
Hello NWO.
Not that "I" believe any of it
And for anyone who is not familiar with the term, whenever a nation purchases its own debt, it is called monetizing the debt and it's not a good thing. It has never worked before and seems to always lead to hyperinflation.
Does anyone know a single historical example where it has actually worked?
You talk about hyperinflation as if it were a bad thing. What sort of unpleasant effect do you fear from hyperinflation? It seems to me a swift and bloodless way to overthrow the capitalist oppressor by completely Constitutional means. Please elucidate...
I'm curious how anyone could think hyperinflation is a good thing.
There are numerous bad things which happen as a result of it, including the inability of the average person to purchase anything, including food (in the USSR, before the collapse of the nation, a loaf of bread cost a week's wages. Many grocery stores had only one or two loaves of bread on the shelf and little else).
For those who have money saved, their wealth is destroyed.
The only possible "up" side to hyperinflation is the ability for people to repay debt. However, for those who are owed money which they loaned out, the money they get in return is worth only a fraction of what it was when they loaned it.
Economic turmoil, in short, is a result of hyperinflation. Nations fall apart as a result of it. Look at what happened to the USSR or Zimbabwe or pre-Nazi Germany and you'll see just a few examples of the chaos caused by hyperinflation.
In economics there is no such critter as a purely bad thing. The ability of people to purchase depends on wealth production, not the M1 supply. The USSR example shows that in a command economy, government price control restricts purchasing power, that is all it shows.
Those who have money saved are called capitalists. The destruction of capital is a very good thing indeed for labor. That's what we Communists have been saying for years.
'You are correct that economic turmoil ensues -- it's less hurtful than the economic turmoil that comes from losing a war. Nations don't fall apart. Niether Zimbabwe nor the Weimar Republic ceased to exist from hyperinflation.
Hyperinflation is a high fever in the body of the economy. As in the human body, the fever serves to kill the invading disease. Hyperinflation is the healing fever than kills the bacillus of capitalism and sets the workers free. Bring it on! (I say this as a capitalist with a conscience.)
You must be ecstatic, now that you have a communist president, who is bringing hyperinflation to our doorstep. ![[eyeroll]](/forums/themes/default/sarcasm.gif)
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Slaol_121
Member
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Posted: Fri Sep 11th, 2009 02:01 pm |
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The Engine wrote: And also, something which is related to the Dollar's coming collapse (boy I really hate to say that!) Is the fact that the interest rate the USA is paying on its debt has been climbing on a daily basis. As follows:
8/28/2009- 2.64% $310,880,000, which is 31% of tax revenue
8/31/2009-2.68% $315,106,000 31.5% of tax revenue
9/4/2009-2.71% $320,701,000 32% of tax revenue
9/10/2009-2.78% APR, $328,437,000 32.8% of tax revenue
So what does this tell us? 1) The APR on America's debt is climbing and climbing fast. 2) The percentage of US tax dollars consumed by the interest on the debt is also climbing at an astronomical rate-from 31% to 32.8% in less than two weeks! At this rate, the interest on the debt will consume about 90% of all tax revenue in one year!
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The Engine
Member
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Posted: Fri Sep 11th, 2009 02:34 pm |
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Slaol_121 wrote: The Engine wrote: And also, something which is related to the Dollar's coming collapse (boy I really hate to say that!) Is the fact that the interest rate the USA is paying on its debt has been climbing on a daily basis. As follows:
8/28/2009- 2.64% $310,880,000, which is 31% of tax revenue
8/31/2009-2.68% $315,106,000 31.5% of tax revenue
9/4/2009-2.71% $320,701,000 32% of tax revenue
9/10/2009-2.78% APR, $328,437,000 32.8% of tax revenue
So what does this tell us? 1) The APR on America's debt is climbing and climbing fast. 2) The percentage of US tax dollars consumed by the interest on the debt is also climbing at an astronomical rate-from 31% to 32.8% in less than two weeks! At this rate, the interest on the debt will consume about 90% of all tax revenue in one year!
Update:
9/11/2009-2.79% APR, $329,754,000,000 32.95% of all tax revenue
(the figures above were times $1000. They actually represent hundreds of billions of dollars. So today's figure is $329 billion in yearly interest on the national debt.)Last edited on Fri Sep 11th, 2009 02:35 pm by The Engine
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The Engine
Member
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Posted: Fri Sep 11th, 2009 03:33 pm |
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And despite our crushing debt, Obama decided to give ACORN, a group which was created for the puropose of comitting voter fraud, 8.5 billioni dollars (That's $8,500,000,000).
http://video.ap.org/?f=VAAJN&PID=pf8Sk296mEziFFcWk9dfcYtr9UDa_s8x
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robertr2000
Member
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Posted: Fri Sep 11th, 2009 04:18 pm |
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The Engine wrote: Slaol_121 wrote: The Engine wrote: And also, something which is related to the Dollar's coming collapse (boy I really hate to say that!) Is the fact that the interest rate the USA is paying on its debt has been climbing on a daily basis. As follows:
8/28/2009- 2.64% $310,880,000, which is 31% of tax revenue
8/31/2009-2.68% $315,106,000 31.5% of tax revenue
9/4/2009-2.71% $320,701,000 32% of tax revenue
9/10/2009-2.78% APR, $328,437,000 32.8% of tax revenue
So what does this tell us? 1) The APR on America's debt is climbing and climbing fast. 2) The percentage of US tax dollars consumed by the interest on the debt is also climbing at an astronomical rate-from 31% to 32.8% in less than two weeks! At this rate, the interest on the debt will consume about 90% of all tax revenue in one year!
Update:
9/11/2009-2.79% APR, $329,754,000,000 32.95% of all tax revenue
(the figures above were times $1000. They actually represent hundreds of billions of dollars. So today's figure is $329 billion in yearly interest on the national debt.)
One world currency. One world government.
R.I.P.
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The Engine
Member
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Posted: Fri Sep 11th, 2009 06:02 pm |
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robertr2000 wrote: The Engine wrote: Slaol_121 wrote: The Engine wrote: And also, something which is related to the Dollar's coming collapse (boy I really hate to say that!) Is the fact that the interest rate the USA is paying on its debt has been climbing on a daily basis. As follows:
8/28/2009- 2.64% $310,880,000, which is 31% of tax revenue
8/31/2009-2.68% $315,106,000 31.5% of tax revenue
9/4/2009-2.71% $320,701,000 32% of tax revenue
9/10/2009-2.78% APR, $328,437,000 32.8% of tax revenue
So what does this tell us? 1) The APR on America's debt is climbing and climbing fast. 2) The percentage of US tax dollars consumed by the interest on the debt is also climbing at an astronomical rate-from 31% to 32.8% in less than two weeks! At this rate, the interest on the debt will consume about 90% of all tax revenue in one year!
Update:
9/11/2009-2.79% APR, $329,754,000,000 32.95% of all tax revenue
(the figures above were times $1000. They actually represent hundreds of billions of dollars. So today's figure is $329 billion in yearly interest on the national debt.)
One world currency. One world government.
R.I.P.
Believe me, you do not want one world government. That is the end of freedom.
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George Aligator
Member
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Posted: Fri Sep 11th, 2009 06:58 pm |
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The Engine wrote: George Aligator wrote: The Engine wrote: George Aligator wrote: The Engine wrote: robertr2000 wrote: O.Bender wrote: Mozart, just a remark, Fed has already started openly buying treasury bills, if I'm not mistaken at least 300 bln. And, what is more essential, it did so secretly for years - if you look at who was buying TB, very significant share is of various offshores, which are used be the Fed for this purpose.
And, what you pointed on correctly, monetizing the debt will really be the tool to start hyperinflation, but it will be done in much more a bigger scale. Not only TB will be bought by the Fed, but huge amounts of dollars will be granted (of course as credits) to banks-founders of the Fed (let's not forget that Fed is a private company founded by a bunch of banks who really rule the World). So, these dollars will be used to buy everything, all falling companies (via buying their debts), houses, everything - most of all debts will be bought, most of property in the US and much of the World will be accumulated in hands of these banks. Having so much newly printed money poured in the market means immediate start of hyperinflation, which will reduce these banks' debt the the Fed to insignificant amount. But the property will be theirs.
The end.
Hello NWO.
Not that "I" believe any of it
And for anyone who is not familiar with the term, whenever a nation purchases its own debt, it is called monetizing the debt and it's not a good thing. It has never worked before and seems to always lead to hyperinflation.
Does anyone know a single historical example where it has actually worked?
You talk about hyperinflation as if it were a bad thing. What sort of unpleasant effect do you fear from hyperinflation? It seems to me a swift and bloodless way to overthrow the capitalist oppressor by completely Constitutional means. Please elucidate...
I'm curious how anyone could think hyperinflation is a good thing.
There are numerous bad things which happen as a result of it, including the inability of the average person to purchase anything, including food (in the USSR, before the collapse of the nation, a loaf of bread cost a week's wages. Many grocery stores had only one or two loaves of bread on the shelf and little else).
For those who have money saved, their wealth is destroyed.
The only possible "up" side to hyperinflation is the ability for people to repay debt. However, for those who are owed money which they loaned out, the money they get in return is worth only a fraction of what it was when they loaned it.
Economic turmoil, in short, is a result of hyperinflation. Nations fall apart as a result of it. Look at what happened to the USSR or Zimbabwe or pre-Nazi Germany and you'll see just a few examples of the chaos caused by hyperinflation.
In economics there is no such critter as a purely bad thing. The ability of people to purchase depends on wealth production, not the M1 supply. The USSR example shows that in a command economy, government price control restricts purchasing power, that is all it shows.
Those who have money saved are called capitalists. The destruction of capital is a very good thing indeed for labor. That's what we Communists have been saying for years.
'You are correct that economic turmoil ensues -- it's less hurtful than the economic turmoil that comes from losing a war. Nations don't fall apart. Niether Zimbabwe nor the Weimar Republic ceased to exist from hyperinflation.
Hyperinflation is a high fever in the body of the economy. As in the human body, the fever serves to kill the invading disease. Hyperinflation is the healing fever than kills the bacillus of capitalism and sets the workers free. Bring it on! (I say this as a capitalist with a conscience.)
You must be ecstatic, now that you have a communist president, who is bringing hyperinflation to our doorstep.
I don't get emotional about politics one way or the other. Obama is not a Communist, he is not a Marxist. These are panicky delusions of the misinformed. There is no sign of inflation -- much less hyper inflation in the economy at this time. You need to stop hyperventilating over fantasms.
A socialist revolution through economic collapse would be a terrible waste in this country. Our government is a product of a revolution and our Founders bequeathed us a truly revolutionary Constitution. We can achieve a socialist revolution through completely constitutional and non-violent means. This is what I am rooting for. The process is well under way.
In an advanced, industrial democracy, socialism comes about through the political process as the inherent weaknesses of late-stage capitalism cause its collapse. The TARP and STIM programs of the past winter are symptoms of this accelerating decline. There is no need to kill people, or even to break windows. The voters want what socialism provides. They are seeing this with ever-growing clarity.
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The Engine
Member
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Posted: Fri Sep 11th, 2009 07:02 pm |
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George Aligator wrote: The Engine wrote: George Aligator wrote: The Engine wrote: George Aligator wrote: The Engine wrote: robertr2000 wrote: O.Bender wrote: Mozart, just a remark, Fed has already started openly buying treasury bills, if I'm not mistaken at least 300 bln. And, what is more essential, it did so secretly for years - if you look at who was buying TB, very significant share is of various offshores, which are used be the Fed for this purpose.
And, what you pointed on correctly, monetizing the debt will really be the tool to start hyperinflation, but it will be done in much more a bigger scale. Not only TB will be bought by the Fed, but huge amounts of dollars will be granted (of course as credits) to banks-founders of the Fed (let's not forget that Fed is a private company founded by a bunch of banks who really rule the World). So, these dollars will be used to buy everything, all falling companies (via buying their debts), houses, everything - most of all debts will be bought, most of property in the US and much of the World will be accumulated in hands of these banks. Having so much newly printed money poured in the market means immediate start of hyperinflation, which will reduce these banks' debt the the Fed to insignificant amount. But the property will be theirs.
The end.
Hello NWO.
Not that "I" believe any of it
And for anyone who is not familiar with the term, whenever a nation purchases its own debt, it is called monetizing the debt and it's not a good thing. It has never worked before and seems to always lead to hyperinflation.
Does anyone know a single historical example where it has actually worked?
You talk about hyperinflation as if it were a bad thing. What sort of unpleasant effect do you fear from hyperinflation? It seems to me a swift and bloodless way to overthrow the capitalist oppressor by completely Constitutional means. Please elucidate...
I'm curious how anyone could think hyperinflation is a good thing.
There are numerous bad things which happen as a result of it, including the inability of the average person to purchase anything, including food (in the USSR, before the collapse of the nation, a loaf of bread cost a week's wages. Many grocery stores had only one or two loaves of bread on the shelf and little else).
For those who have money saved, their wealth is destroyed.
The only possible "up" side to hyperinflation is the ability for people to repay debt. However, for those who are owed money which they loaned out, the money they get in return is worth only a fraction of what it was when they loaned it.
Economic turmoil, in short, is a result of hyperinflation. Nations fall apart as a result of it. Look at what happened to the USSR or Zimbabwe or pre-Nazi Germany and you'll see just a few examples of the chaos caused by hyperinflation.
In economics there is no such critter as a purely bad thing. The ability of people to purchase depends on wealth production, not the M1 supply. The USSR example shows that in a command economy, government price control restricts purchasing power, that is all it shows.
Those who have money saved are called capitalists. The destruction of capital is a very good thing indeed for labor. That's what we Communists have been saying for years.
'You are correct that economic turmoil ensues -- it's less hurtful than the economic turmoil that comes from losing a war. Nations don't fall apart. Niether Zimbabwe nor the Weimar Republic ceased to exist from hyperinflation.
Hyperinflation is a high fever in the body of the economy. As in the human body, the fever serves to kill the invading disease. Hyperinflation is the healing fever than kills the bacillus of capitalism and sets the workers free. Bring it on! (I say this as a capitalist with a conscience.)
You must be ecstatic, now that you have a communist president, who is bringing hyperinflation to our doorstep.
I don't get emotional about politics one way or the other. Obama is not a Communist, he is not a Marxist. These are panicky delusions of the misinformed. There is no sign of inflation -- much less hyper inflation in the economy at this time. You need to stop hyperventilating over fantasms.
A socialist revolution through economic collapse would be a terrible waste in this country. Our government is a product of a revolution and our Founders bequeathed us a truly revolutionary Constitution. We can achieve a socialist revolution through completely constitutional and non-violent means. This is what I am rooting for. The process is well under way.
In an advanced, industrial democracy, socialism comes about through the political process as the inherent weaknesses of late-stage capitalism cause its collapse. The TARP and STIM programs of the past winter are symptoms of this accelerating decline. There is no need to kill people, or even to break windows. The voters want what socialism provides. They are seeing this with ever-growing clarity.
He is a marxist. His appointees are marxists. His book is marxist. His friends are marxists. Both of his stepfathers and his mother were all marxists.
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George Aligator
Member
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Posted: Fri Sep 11th, 2009 08:06 pm |
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The Engine wrote: George Aligator wrote: The Engine wrote: George Aligator wrote: The Engine wrote: George Aligator wrote: The Engine wrote: robertr2000 wrote: O.Bender wrote: Mozart, just a remark, Fed has already started openly buying treasury bills, if I'm not mistaken at least 300 bln. And, what is more essential, it did so secretly for years - if you look at who was buying TB, very significant share is of various offshores, which are used be the Fed for this purpose.
And, what you pointed on correctly, monetizing the debt will really be the tool to start hyperinflation, but it will be done in much more a bigger scale. Not only TB will be bought by the Fed, but huge amounts of dollars will be granted (of course as credits) to banks-founders of the Fed (let's not forget that Fed is a private company founded by a bunch of banks who really rule the World). So, these dollars will be used to buy everything, all falling companies (via buying their debts), houses, everything - most of all debts will be bought, most of property in the US and much of the World will be accumulated in hands of these banks. Having so much newly printed money poured in the market means immediate start of hyperinflation, which will reduce these banks' debt the the Fed to insignificant amount. But the property will be theirs.
The end.
Hello NWO.
Not that "I" believe any of it
And for anyone who is not familiar with the term, whenever a nation purchases its own debt, it is called monetizing the debt and it's not a good thing. It has never worked before and seems to always lead to hyperinflation.
Does anyone know a single historical example where it has actually worked?
You talk about hyperinflation as if it were a bad thing. What sort of unpleasant effect do you fear from hyperinflation? It seems to me a swift and bloodless way to overthrow the capitalist oppressor by completely Constitutional means. Please elucidate...
I'm curious how anyone could think hyperinflation is a good thing.
There are numerous bad things which happen as a result of it, including the inability of the average person to purchase anything, including food (in the USSR, before the collapse of the nation, a loaf of bread cost a week's wages. Many grocery stores had only one or two loaves of bread on the shelf and little else).
For those who have money saved, their wealth is destroyed.
The only possible "up" side to hyperinflation is the ability for people to repay debt. However, for those who are owed money which they loaned out, the money they get in return is worth only a fraction of what it was when they loaned it.
Economic turmoil, in short, is a result of hyperinflation. Nations fall apart as a result of it. Look at what happened to the USSR or Zimbabwe or pre-Nazi Germany and you'll see just a few examples of the chaos caused by hyperinflation.
In economics there is no such critter as a purely bad thing. The ability of people to purchase depends on wealth production, not the M1 supply. The USSR example shows that in a command economy, government price control restricts purchasing power, that is all it shows.
Those who have money saved are called capitalists. The destruction of capital is a very good thing indeed for labor. That's what we Communists have been saying for years.
'You are correct that economic turmoil ensues -- it's less hurtful than the economic turmoil that comes from losing a war. Nations don't fall apart. Niether Zimbabwe nor the Weimar Republic ceased to exist from hyperinflation.
Hyperinflation is a high fever in the body of the economy. As in the human body, the fever serves to kill the invading disease. Hyperinflation is the healing fever than kills the bacillus of capitalism and sets the workers free. Bring it on! (I say this as a capitalist with a conscience.)
You must be ecstatic, now that you have a communist president, who is bringing hyperinflation to our doorstep.
I don't get emotional about politics one way or the other. Obama is not a Communist, he is not a Marxist. These are panicky delusions of the misinformed. There is no sign of inflation -- much less hyper inflation in the economy at this time. You need to stop hyperventilating over fantasms.
A socialist revolution through economic collapse would be a terrible waste in this country. Our government is a product of a revolution and our Founders bequeathed us a truly revolutionary Constitution. We can achieve a socialist revolution through completely constitutional and non-violent means. This is what I am rooting for. The process is well under way.
In an advanced, industrial democracy, socialism comes about through the political process as the inherent weaknesses of late-stage capitalism cause its collapse. The TARP and STIM programs of the past winter are symptoms of this accelerating decline. There is no need to kill people, or even to break windows. The voters want what socialism provides. They are seeing this with ever-growing clarity.
He is a marxist. His appointees are marxists. His book is marxist. His friends are marxists. Both of his stepfathers and his mother were all marxists.
You are hilarious! Marxist is capitalized by those who have some inkling of what the word means. Your fellow Birthers, Death Panel Loons and Tea Baggies may find this sort of assertion probative, no one else does. I doubt you can tell Hegel from Bagel.
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The Engine
Member
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Posted: Fri Sep 11th, 2009 08:14 pm |
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George Aligator wrote: The Engine wrote: George Aligator wrote: The Engine wrote: George Aligator wrote: The Engine wrote: George Aligator wrote: The Engine wrote: robertr2000 wrote: O.Bender wrote: Mozart, just a remark, Fed has already started openly buying treasury bills, if I'm not mistaken at least 300 bln. And, what is more essential, it did so secretly for years - if you look at who was buying TB, very significant share is of various offshores, which are used be the Fed for this purpose.
And, what you pointed on correctly, monetizing the debt will really be the tool to start hyperinflation, but it will be done in much more a bigger scale. Not only TB will be bought by the Fed, but huge amounts of dollars will be granted (of course as credits) to banks-founders of the Fed (let's not forget that Fed is a private company founded by a bunch of banks who really rule the World). So, these dollars will be used to buy everything, all falling companies (via buying their debts), houses, everything - most of all debts will be bought, most of property in the US and much of the World will be accumulated in hands of these banks. Having so much newly printed money poured in the market means immediate start of hyperinflation, which will reduce these banks' debt the the Fed to insignificant amount. But the property will be theirs.
The end.
Hello NWO.
Not that "I" believe any of it
And for anyone who is not familiar with the term, whenever a nation purchases its own debt, it is called monetizing the debt and it's not a good thing. It has never worked before and seems to always lead to hyperinflation.
Does anyone know a single historical example where it has actually worked?
You talk about hyperinflation as if it were a bad thing. What sort of unpleasant effect do you fear from hyperinflation? It seems to me a swift and bloodless way to overthrow the capitalist oppressor by completely Constitutional means. Please elucidate...
I'm curious how anyone could think hyperinflation is a good thing.
There are numerous bad things which happen as a result of it, including the inability of the average person to purchase anything, including food (in the USSR, before the collapse of the nation, a loaf of bread cost a week's wages. Many grocery stores had only one or two loaves of bread on the shelf and little else).
For those who have money saved, their wealth is destroyed.
The only possible "up" side to hyperinflation is the ability for people to repay debt. However, for those who are owed money which they loaned out, the money they get in return is worth only a fraction of what it was when they loaned it.
Economic turmoil, in short, is a result of hyperinflation. Nations fall apart as a result of it. Look at what happened to the USSR or Zimbabwe or pre-Nazi Germany and you'll see just a few examples of the chaos caused by hyperinflation.
In economics there is no such critter as a purely bad thing. The ability of people to purchase depends on wealth production, not the M1 supply. The USSR example shows that in a command economy, government price control restricts purchasing power, that is all it shows.
Those who have money saved are called capitalists. The destruction of capital is a very good thing indeed for labor. That's what we Communists have been saying for years.
'You are correct that economic turmoil ensues -- it's less hurtful than the economic turmoil that comes from losing a war. Nations don't fall apart. Niether Zimbabwe nor the Weimar Republic ceased to exist from hyperinflation.
Hyperinflation is a high fever in the body of the economy. As in the human body, the fever serves to kill the invading disease. Hyperinflation is the healing fever than kills the bacillus of capitalism and sets the workers free. Bring it on! (I say this as a capitalist with a conscience.)
You must be ecstatic, now that you have a communist president, who is bringing hyperinflation to our doorstep.
I don't get emotional about politics one way or the other. Obama is not a Communist, he is not a Marxist. These are panicky delusions of the misinformed. There is no sign of inflation -- much less hyper inflation in the economy at this time. You need to stop hyperventilating over fantasms.
A socialist revolution through economic collapse would be a terrible waste in this country. Our government is a product of a revolution and our Founders bequeathed us a truly revolutionary Constitution. We can achieve a socialist revolution through completely constitutional and non-violent means. This is what I am rooting for. The process is well under way.
In an advanced, industrial democracy, socialism comes about through the political process as the inherent weaknesses of late-stage capitalism cause its collapse. The TARP and STIM programs of the past winter are symptoms of this accelerating decline. There is no need to kill people, or even to break windows. The voters want what socialism provides. They are seeing this with ever-growing clarity.
He is a marxist. His appointees are marxists. His book is marxist. His friends are marxists. Both of his stepfathers and his mother were all marxists.
You are hilarious! Marxist is capitalized by those who have some inkling of what the word means. Your fellow Birthers, Death Panel Loons and Tea Baggies may find this sort of assertion probative, no one else does. I doubt you can tell Hegel from Bagel.
In one way you are correct: his economic policy is much more like Nazi Germany's than a marxist philosophy.
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George Aligator
Member
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Posted: Fri Sep 11th, 2009 09:03 pm |
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The Engine wrote: George Aligator wrote: The Engine wrote: George Aligator wrote: The Engine wrote: George Aligator wrote: The Engine wrote: George Aligator wrote: The Engine wrote: robertr2000 wrote: O.Bender wrote: Mozart, just a remark, Fed has already started openly buying treasury bills, if I'm not mistaken at least 300 bln. And, what is more essential, it did so secretly for years - if you look at who was buying TB, very significant share is of various offshores, which are used be the Fed for this purpose.
And, what you pointed on correctly, monetizing the debt will really be the tool to start hyperinflation, but it will be done in much more a bigger scale. Not only TB will be bought by the Fed, but huge amounts of dollars will be granted (of course as credits) to banks-founders of the Fed (let's not forget that Fed is a private company founded by a bunch of banks who really rule the World). So, these dollars will be used to buy everything, all falling companies (via buying their debts), houses, everything - most of all debts will be bought, most of property in the US and much of the World will be accumulated in hands of these banks. Having so much newly printed money poured in the market means immediate start of hyperinflation, which will reduce these banks' debt the the Fed to insignificant amount. But the property will be theirs.
The end.
Hello NWO.
Not that "I" believe any of it
And for anyone who is not familiar with the term, whenever a nation purchases its own debt, it is called monetizing the debt and it's not a good thing. It has never worked before and seems to always lead to hyperinflation.
Does anyone know a single historical example where it has actually worked?
You talk about hyperinflation as if it were a bad thing. What sort of unpleasant effect do you fear from hyperinflation? It seems to me a swift and bloodless way to overthrow the capitalist oppressor by completely Constitutional means. Please elucidate...
I'm curious how anyone could think hyperinflation is a good thing.
There are numerous bad things which happen as a result of it, including the inability of the average person to purchase anything, including food (in the USSR, before the collapse of the nation, a loaf of bread cost a week's wages. Many grocery stores had only one or two loaves of bread on the shelf and little else).
For those who have money saved, their wealth is destroyed.
The only possible "up" side to hyperinflation is the ability for people to repay debt. However, for those who are owed money which they loaned out, the money they get in return is worth only a fraction of what it was when they loaned it.
Economic turmoil, in short, is a result of hyperinflation. Nations fall apart as a result of it. Look at what happened to the USSR or Zimbabwe or pre-Nazi Germany and you'll see just a few examples of the chaos caused by hyperinflation.
In economics there is no such critter as a purely bad thing. The ability of people to purchase depends on wealth production, not the M1 supply. The USSR example shows that in a command economy, government price control restricts purchasing power, that is all it shows.
Those who have money saved are called capitalists. The destruction of capital is a very good thing indeed for labor. That's what we Communists have been saying for years.
'You are correct that economic turmoil ensues -- it's less hurtful than the economic turmoil that comes from losing a war. Nations don't fall apart. Niether Zimbabwe nor the Weimar Republic ceased to exist from hyperinflation.
Hyperinflation is a high fever in the body of the economy. As in the human body, the fever serves to kill the invading disease. Hyperinflation is the healing fever than kills the bacillus of capitalism and sets the workers free. Bring it on! (I say this as a capitalist with a conscience.)
You must be ecstatic, now that you have a communist president, who is bringing hyperinflation to our doorstep.
I don't get emotional about politics one way or the other. Obama is not a Communist, he is not a Marxist. These are panicky delusions of the misinformed. There is no sign of inflation -- much less hyper inflation in the economy at this time. You need to stop hyperventilating over fantasms.
A socialist revolution through economic collapse would be a terrible waste in this country. Our government is a product of a revolution and our Founders bequeathed us a truly revolutionary Constitution. We can achieve a socialist revolution through completely constitutional and non-violent means. This is what I am rooting for. The process is well under way.
In an advanced, industrial democracy, socialism comes about through the political process as the inherent weaknesses of late-stage capitalism cause its collapse. The TARP and STIM programs of the past winter are symptoms of this accelerating decline. There is no need to kill people, or even to break windows. The voters want what socialism provides. They are seeing this with ever-growing clarity.
He is a marxist. His appointees are marxists. His book is marxist. His friends are marxists. Both of his stepfathers and his mother were all marxists.
You are hilarious! Marxist is capitalized by those who have some inkling of what the word means. Your fellow Birthers, Death Panel Loons and Tea Baggies may find this sort of assertion probative, no one else does. I doubt you can tell Hegel from Bagel.
In one way you are correct: his economic policy is much more like Nazi Germany's than a marxist philosophy. Still having trouble with that capital "M" I see. Now he is a Nazi Marxist? That is even better than a Muslim Marxist. I think you have no idea at all what any of these terms signify. No wonder you are so bitter about public education; you are clearly one who slipped through the cracks in the floor of that noble edifice. If only Obama had been around to urge you to stay in school back then. Your whole life might have been different.
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robertr2000
Member
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Posted: Fri Sep 11th, 2009 11:16 pm |
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The Engine wrote: robertr2000 wrote: The Engine wrote: Slaol_121 wrote: The Engine wrote: And also, something which is related to the Dollar's coming collapse (boy I really hate to say that!) Is the fact that the interest rate the USA is paying on its debt has been climbing on a daily basis. As follows:
8/28/2009- 2.64% $310,880,000, which is 31% of tax revenue
8/31/2009-2.68% $315,106,000 31.5% of tax revenue
9/4/2009-2.71% $320,701,000 32% of tax revenue
9/10/2009-2.78% APR, $328,437,000 32.8% of tax revenue
So what does this tell us? 1) The APR on America's debt is climbing and climbing fast. 2) The percentage of US tax dollars consumed by the interest on the debt is also climbing at an astronomical rate-from 31% to 32.8% in less than two weeks! At this rate, the interest on the debt will consume about 90% of all tax revenue in one year!
Update:
9/11/2009-2.79% APR, $329,754,000,000 32.95% of all tax revenue
(the figures above were times $1000. They actually represent hundreds of billions of dollars. So today's figure is $329 billion in yearly interest on the national debt.)
One world currency. One world government.
R.I.P.
Believe me, you do not want one world government. That is the end of freedom.
How is it that you believe that I "want" one world government. I am (and have been) saying that this is exactly what the NWO has wanted and has been working tirelessly for...... Oh never mind... You don't believe in "consperacy theories"
One world curency = one world government = New World Order = R.I.P.
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