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SeeMe
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| Joined: | Sun Jun 1st, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 376 |
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Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2009 02:38 pm |
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TD wrote:
I don't support Isreal over anyone else. I'm appalled when anyone blows up a bus, no matter who the bomber is or where the bus is. What I'm asking is why the Palestinians are treated like victims when they behave like murderers.
I don't agree that anyone should blow up buses with children, either. However, not all Palestinians do that. There's a small portion of the Palestinian population that is militant. Not even all Palestinian militants are blowing up buses. I'm not trying to make excuses for those who do commit these terrible crimes, I'm just stating the fact that it's not something every Palestinian is doing.
You wonder why Palestinians are treated as victims. Well, there are several reasons why Palestinians have gotten sympathy. Consider the fact that hundreds of Palestinian villages were ethnically cleansed in 1948. Consider that these people can't return to their homes. Consider the unfair policy of punishing entire families by bulldozing homes, because one family member is a militant. Consider the use of rubber-coated lead bullets used on unarmed protestors. Consider curfews that can last more than 200 days in a year. Consider the wall running through Palestinian businesses, cutting them off from customers. Consider the blockade of food and petrol into Gaza, months before the war in January this year. Consider the dozens of checkpoints where Palestinians wait for hours on end, every day, being searched. Consider IDF soldiers with bulltproof wests, tanks and assault rifles killing 12-14 year old Palestinian children throwing rocks at them.
You'll probably think the last sentence proves your point that people give Palestinians an unfair slack. I'll just ask you how you'd feel about having your home bulldozed, going through hours upon hours of checkpoints and strip searches, not being allowed to peacefully protest in certain places, because of settlements nearby, feeling threatened by settlers occypying the territory where your grandparents once lived. Wouldn't you even think about throwing a rock or protest against people who had taken everything away from you, and who had 20 times more money because their businesses weren't ruined by blockades, walls and the fact that all the good crop soil was occupied by them? Wouldn't you be the least bit upset if your land was occupied for 61 years, and you'd just lost your home because a bulldozer operated by a soldier from the occupying force flattened it?
I just don't understand how people can't see that just because Palestinian terrorism is wrong, it doesn't make Israeli occupation, subjugation, destruction of homes, ethnic cleansing and denying people the right to return home, the least bit right.
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jbarn
Member
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Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2009 03:05 pm |
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Oh I know WHY the United States gets so involved with Israel and the Palestinians who have been fighting ever since Ishmael. It’s because so many American fundamentalist Christians lobby their congressmen about needing to bring peace to the middle east because of their blood thirsty need to see Armageddon when Jesus and his saints come down from heaven to murder all non-Christians and who believe that all the remaining Jews, “the chosen” people of God, will see the light, convert to Christianity, and will use their superior fire power to help the vengeful, loving God as his remaining army on earth. People in power will do what they get paid to do. People who believe in crazy religious crap will do what they believe they should do. I say let Armageddon happen. Let all the religious people kill each other off of the planet. I don’t have any power to control them, anyway. Neither do you or any know-it-all, stuck up European for that matter. Besides both sides in Israel are supported by the U.S. I hope for some sort of temporary peace if at all possible, but I don’t think it is probable, so I don’t worry about what happens on either side to be honest with you. Like I said, it is all out my control as an individual.
However, what is in my control is to correct people who I personally come in contact with who get it wrong about how most Americans really are. This I DO know, and the majority of the rest of the world is absolutely wrong with their stuck up opinion about us.
It DOES concern me a little bit, though, to see so many people ignoring the warning signs while siding with people who for no good reason condone their children to be raised and educated by religious organizations who condone the slaying of infidels who get rewarded as martyrs for suicide terrorism who in the thousands celebrated the 9-11 attacks.
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Mazel Schlimazel
Member
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Posted: Fri Oct 23rd, 2009 09:08 am |
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jbarn wrote: Israel and the Palestinians who have been fighting ever since Ishmael.
In honesty towards History, though, that is not exactly true... For most of the last 1500 years, Jews and Muslims have had normal relations and peaceful co-existence amongst each other. The Muslim world (until recently) was much more respectful to us Jews, historically, than Europe for most of the last thousand years...
Not only that, but even culturally and theologically, Jews and Muslims are close (though distinct, not identical of course.. but in some ways more similar than jews and xians)
Both religions lived side by side in places ranging from Spain, to North Africa and Persia over 1400 years, and usually did not resort to killing or forcibly converting each other. In fact, Jews and Muslims in those areas would respect one another's autonomous religious customs without imposing their differences on each other...
Which is why I don't totally see the possibility for a viable secular/decentralized one-state solution as baseless, if you can root out the anger caused by the 60-year-old conflict over a future span of time... 60, not thousands of years...
The great Jewish Rabbi and philosopher, Maimonides, was the personal physician of the Sultan of Jerusalem, during the Crusades.. and at that time, it was Jews and (mostly) Muslims banding together against the onslaught of Europe's invading warriors.
and even now, many Jews and Muslims get along great in Israel. I traveled there in 2007 (as a spiritual/religious Jew, and to visit my extended relatives there), and more than once witnessed both sides peacefully going to bazaars and engaging in mutual trade and commerce.
Last edited on Fri Oct 23rd, 2009 09:13 am by Mazel Schlimazel
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Mazel Schlimazel
Member
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Posted: Fri Oct 23rd, 2009 09:21 am |
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At the same time, I think that if there was no Israel since 1948 to the present, there would possibly still be Islamic Jihad and acts of Terrorism among Fundamentalists in Islam. (although I realize it's part of what's fuelling their hatred towards the West)
Also... To deny that crazy Fundamentalists (and terrorists) exist within Islam (mainly a moderate religion), and pose a threat to stability in the Middle East and the world as a whole, is the height of either blatant ignorance or willful deceit, as well. 9/11 made that clear...
Last edited on Fri Oct 23rd, 2009 09:22 am by Mazel Schlimazel
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Mazel Schlimazel
Member
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Posted: Fri Oct 23rd, 2009 09:42 am |
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One of my room-mates, this year, btw, is a Shia Persian fellow, and it's his first time outside of Iran, as a student... he told me he has nothing but respect for Jews, and I even invited him and his friend out to a Sabbath dinner at my orthodox Synagogue, a few weeks back... 
It's not that "Jews and Muslims can get along."... We have gotten along for a long long time, and continue to do so on many occasions... (despite Geopolitical and social shifts in consciousness over the last half century..)
Last edited on Fri Oct 23rd, 2009 09:43 am by Mazel Schlimazel
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Yamadog
Member
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Posted: Thu Oct 29th, 2009 12:11 am |
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End the occupation!
Attachment: Zionist.jpg (Downloaded 83 times)
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Πίτα
Member
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Posted: Thu Oct 29th, 2009 01:13 am |
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Yamadog wrote: End the occupation!
Lol, only like only 40% of that map is Arab.
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Πίτα
Member
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Posted: Thu Oct 29th, 2009 04:49 am |
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Consider the unfair policy of punishing entire families by bulldozing homes, because one family member is a militant.
Expanding on this; Israel has taken up the habit of buldozing houses even when the suspected suicide bomber is already dead:
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P1-72245615.html
Now I just got done reading the entire thread and Wow,I'm pretty appalled by your response to this TD.
Or they can keep up their terrorist ways - elect known terrorists I'm curious as to why this applies to Palestine and not Israel, When Israeli citizens know that any military action in Palestine is going to result in in massive civilian casualties, yet more than 85% of them still support such military action1, I have to ask what is the difference to you between Palestine elected HAMAS and being a bunch of savages and Israel electing Likud and being morally 'neutral' it certainly isn't the number of civilian causalities because it's obvious that the number of dead Palestinians far out weighs the number of dead Israelis2
supporting suicide bombers (they are rockstars over there) This is a serious inaccuracy at best and an out right lie at worst, Palestinian support for suicide bombing has been mixed amongst the Palestinian Population for almost a decade3 .
The Palestinians are filth because they glorify sending their children to blow themselves up along with civilians on buses. And yet the Israelis' are not?
how is blowing up a bus any different dropping a bunch of bombs into a densely populated area and not giving a shi* about who or what you hit.
And you can call me a racist, if you like, but that just makes you sound stupid. The Palestinians are not a race. They are Arab. The Palestinians are actually a sub-group of the Arab race, similar to the way both Slovakia and Serbia are both 'Slavic' but have totally diffrent histories because of where they live, mind you the Palestinian culture is much younger than the two nations i just listed, but the fact is your argument doesn't really stand here. Even if it did why on earth do you think it's okay? If only hate all the black people in my neighborhood how does that make me any different from an 'actual' racist.
The big difference is that the US tries not to kill civilians (and I believe Israel does as well) I'd love to see any sort of proof of this particularly considering The United States of America's most recent debacle with unmanned drones.
this thread was about how Isreal should face war crimes after going into gaza - an armed response to terrorist activity - shooting rockets into civilian areas. Let's distinguish between an act of war and a war crime here, The shooting off of the Qassam Rockets was certainly an act of war, and Gaza was undoubtedly the Aggressor in the most recent war, how ever that dose not excuse Israel from doing this;
This is White Prosperous; I'm not going to go into a detailed exlpnaition of what it does to you, but I'm sure you remember a similar situation in Fallujah, Iraq. As 'unfair' as you seem to think these allegations are the fact is at the very least Israel committed a crime by using this stuff.
Look, TD I'm sure your a good person and all but your retoric is absolutely infuriating, if there is one thing that we can learn from Gaza its if you treat people like rabid animals, if you lock them up in a cage with out any food or water, then they are going to start acting like animals,if you truly think you're better than these people then give them the respect you believe that they don't give you, because unless Israel decided to go nuclear then then the Palestinian are going to be around a lot longer than you, and you and your apathy would have accomplished nothing.
1http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/reports/archive/international/israel_poll.shtml
2http://www.btselem.org/english/Statistics/Casualties.asp
3 http://www.jmcc.org/publicpoll/results/2006/no57.pdf
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cwa1991
Member
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Posted: Thu Oct 29th, 2009 05:20 pm |
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Πίτα wrote: Consider the unfair policy of punishing entire families by bulldozing homes, because one family member is a militant.
Expanding on this; Israel has taken up the habit of buldozing houses even when the suspected suicide bomber is already dead:
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P1-72245615.html
Now I just got done reading the entire thread and Wow,I'm pretty appalled by your response to this TD.
Or they can keep up their terrorist ways - elect known terrorists I'm curious as to why this applies to Palestine and not Israel, When Israeli citizens know that any military action in Palestine is going to result in in massive civilian casualties, yet more than 85% of them still support such military action1, I have to ask what is the difference to you between Palestine elected HAMAS and being a bunch of savages and Israel electing Likud and being morally 'neutral' it certainly isn't the number of civilian causalities because it's obvious that the number of dead Palestinians far out weighs the number of dead Israelis2
supporting suicide bombers (they are rockstars over there) This is a serious inaccuracy at best and an out right lie at worst, Palestinian support for suicide bombing has been mixed amongst the Palestinian Population for almost a decade3 .
The Palestinians are filth because they glorify sending their children to blow themselves up along with civilians on buses. And yet the Israelis' are not?
how is blowing up a bus any different dropping a bunch of bombs into a densely populated area and not giving a shi* about who or what you hit.
And you can call me a racist, if you like, but that just makes you sound stupid. The Palestinians are not a race. They are Arab. The Palestinians are actually a sub-group of the Arab race, similar to the way both Slovakia and Serbia are both 'Slavic' but have totally diffrent histories because of where they live, mind you the Palestinian culture is much younger than the two nations i just listed, but the fact is your argument doesn't really stand here. Even if it did why on earth do you think it's okay? If only hate all the black people in my neighborhood how does that make me any different from an 'actual' racist.
The big difference is that the US tries not to kill civilians (and I believe Israel does as well) I'd love to see any sort of proof of this particularly considering The United States of America's most recent debacle with unmanned drones.
this thread was about how Isreal should face war crimes after going into gaza - an armed response to terrorist activity - shooting rockets into civilian areas. Let's distinguish between an act of war and a war crime here, The shooting off of the Qassam Rockets was certainly an act of war, and Gaza was undoubtedly the Aggressor in the most recent war, how ever that dose not excuse Israel from doing this;
This is White Prosperous[sic]; I'm not going to go into a detailed exlpnaition[sic] of what it does to you, but I'm sure you remember a similar situation in Fallujah, Iraq. As 'unfair' as you seem to think these allegations are the fact is at the very least, Israel committed a crime by using this stuff [citation needed].
Look, TD, I'm sure your[sic] a good person and all, but your retoric [sic] is absolutely infuriating, if there is one thing that we can learn from Gaza, its[sic] if you treat people like rabid animals, if you lock them up in a cage without any food or water, then they are going to start acting like animals, if you truly think you're better than these people, then give them the respect you believe that they don't give you, because unless Israel decided to go nuclear, then then[sic] the Palestinian[sic] are going to be around a lot longer than you, and you and your apathy would have accomplished nothing.
. You know, you're just not going to get any Alan Alda/Jimmy Carter types for Israeli Prime Minister, no matter HOW popular that would be with Leftist sob-sisters & Jew-haters. 
Try to remember the reason for, "No More Masadas."
Last edited on Thu Oct 29th, 2009 05:25 pm by cwa1991
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Yamadog
Member
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Posted: Thu Oct 29th, 2009 06:22 pm |
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Πίτα wrote: Let's distinguish between an act of war and a war crime here, The shooting off of the Qassam Rockets was certainly an act of war, and Gaza was undoubtedly the Aggressor in the most recent war, how ever that dose not excuse Israel from doing this;
This is White Prosperous; I'm not going to go into a detailed exlpnaition of what it does to you, but I'm sure you remember a similar situation in Fallujah, Iraq. As 'unfair' as you seem to think these allegations are the fact is at the very least Israel committed a crime by using this stuff.
1http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/reports/archive/international/israel_poll.shtml
2http://www.btselem.org/english/Statistics/Casualties.asp
3 http://www.jmcc.org/publicpoll/results/2006/no57.pdf
Maybe the Israeli army should just use rocks. I'm sure the consequences that befall the people of Gaza would be less extreme in that case. After all, they are just victims of The League Of Nations, The British Mandate of Palestine and the greed of the European colonial powers. The fate of the oppressed people of Palestine is no different than that of the Native American People under the same Europeans.
End the occupation of Palestine AND North America
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Πίτα
Member
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Posted: Thu Oct 29th, 2009 08:18 pm |
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Maybe the Israeli army should just use rocks. I'm sure the consequences that befall the people of Gaza would be less extreme in that case.
They can do what ever they like, they just have to live with the consequences of their actions. What they can't do however is change the rule after they've broken them;
http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=233857
After all, they are just victims of The League Of Nations and the United Nations, but yeah.
The British Mandate of Palestine Yep.
and the greed of the European colonial powers. Yep. Ottoman Turks included.
The fate of the oppressed people of Palestine is no different than that of the Native American People under the same Europeans. Well it's going to be, if Israel continues its slow annexation of Palestinian lands as it has been doing and continues the Racial discrimination against it's own Arab citizens as it has been doing, then I could see Israel repeating the history of pre-civil rights America very easily
End the occupation of Palestine AND North America It's not Israelis living in Israel that bothers me. What bothers me is the cutting off of food and water to the Palestinians, as well as the banning of Arab parties and the general idea that Israel is only for Jews that seems to espoused by Israeli conservatives and the Racism that follows it.
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Yamadog
Member
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Posted: Thu Oct 29th, 2009 08:45 pm |
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Πίτα wrote: It's not Israelis living in Israel that bothers me. What bothers me is the cutting off of food and water to the Palestinians, as well as the banning of Arab parties and the general idea that Israel is only for Jews that seems to espoused by Israeli conservatives and the Racism that follows it.
Yes, its the irony of ironies that the bigotry, persecution, and injustices that led to the creation of the modern Jewish state is strongest there. I'm glad I don't live there. The lack of both the right to the pursuit of happiness, and freedom to LEAVE is devastating.
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TD
S. Moderator
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Posted: Thu Oct 29th, 2009 10:07 pm |
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SeeMe wrote: TD wrote:
I don't support Isreal over anyone else. I'm appalled when anyone blows up a bus, no matter who the bomber is or where the bus is. What I'm asking is why the Palestinians are treated like victims when they behave like murderers.
I don't agree that anyone should blow up buses with children, either. However, not all Palestinians do that. There's a small portion of the Palestinian population that is militant. Not even all Palestinian militants are blowing up buses. I'm not trying to make excuses for those who do commit these terrible crimes, I'm just stating the fact that it's not something every Palestinian is doing.
You wonder why Palestinians are treated as victims. Well, there are several reasons why Palestinians have gotten sympathy. Consider the fact that hundreds of Palestinian villages were ethnically cleansed in 1948. Consider that these people can't return to their homes. Consider the unfair policy of punishing entire families by bulldozing homes, because one family member is a militant. Consider the use of rubber-coated lead bullets used on unarmed protestors. Consider curfews that can last more than 200 days in a year. Consider the wall running through Palestinian businesses, cutting them off from customers. Consider the blockade of food and petrol into Gaza, months before the war in January this year. Consider the dozens of checkpoints where Palestinians wait for hours on end, every day, being searched. Consider IDF soldiers with bulltproof wests, tanks and assault rifles killing 12-14 year old Palestinian children throwing rocks at them.
You'll probably think the last sentence proves your point that people give Palestinians an unfair slack. I'll just ask you how you'd feel about having your home bulldozed, going through hours upon hours of checkpoints and strip searches, not being allowed to peacefully protest in certain places, because of settlements nearby, feeling threatened by settlers occypying the territory where your grandparents once lived. Wouldn't you even think about throwing a rock or protest against people who had taken everything away from you, and who had 20 times more money because their businesses weren't ruined by blockades, walls and the fact that all the good crop soil was occupied by them? Wouldn't you be the least bit upset if your land was occupied for 61 years, and you'd just lost your home because a bulldozer operated by a soldier from the occupying force flattened it?
I just don't understand how people can't see that just because Palestinian terrorism is wrong, it doesn't make Israeli occupation, subjugation, destruction of homes, ethnic cleansing and denying people the right to return home, the least bit right.
OK, let me go ahead and get a few things out of the way for everyone, since so many people are making the same simplistic mistakes.
First, I don't think oppression by the Jews, or anyone else, is good or acceptable. I don't think there is a good guy in this conflict, which is my entire point here. I'm just pointing out how the Palestinians suck, since so many people here seem to think they walk on water. So once again, I'll make my point and keep reiterating it so that it doesn't get lost in all the junk that people make up about my post.
Here's my point: the Palestinians suck and don't deserve our support.
Now, you can come back with all sorts of crap about how evil the Jews are. Well, great - that would make a nice topic to discuss. I'm simply offering my point - that the Palestinians suck - in response to the ludicrous idea that the Isreali's should face warm crimes over Gaza.
Second, I don't think that every single living Palestinian is a terrorist, suicide bomber, or rocket launcher. I don't think that every single one of them celebrated the attackes on 9/11. But I do think enough of them are terrorists and enough support airplanes flying into buildings, that the group as a whole does not deserve our support. In short, as a group, they suck and don't deserve our support.
Third, the fact that I don't like the Palestinians doesn't make me a racist. I don't dislike all Arabs, and the fact that the Palestinians are Arab doesn't affect how I feel about them in any way. It's not their race I despise, it is their actions and their attitudes and beliefs. I would still hate them if they were blond haired and blue eyed, or if they were oriental. It's not a race thing. Calling it racist just makes you sound stupid. Stop it.
Now, let's address some specifics in this little gem of a post.
If I suffered the same oppression as the Palestinians, I'd be pissed. However, I would draw the line far short of encouraging women or children to strap a bomb to themselves and blow up an israeli bus. I would not celebrate the deaths of people in other countries because they are allied with Israel.
Now, let's talk about the wall. It cuts the Palestinians off from customers. Jewish customers! Or residents of Israel - you know, the people getting hit with the rockets. You seem to think it's ok to kill people because they built a wall. I, on the other hand, think it's ok to build a wall because people were killing other people. I place more importance on death than oppression. Seems like a no brainer, but then so does this entire issue.
I support bulldozing the home of a terrorist. If someone blows up a bus, killing innocent people, he should know that in addition to his 70 virgins or whatever they are promising those morons these days, their family will need to spend their martyr-money on a new house. I think it is a perfect response.
And just in case anyone's minds have wandered too far from the point, here it is again: the Palestinians suck and don't deserve our support.
In saying that, I'm not implying that the Israeli's are completely blameless or that anything they do should be excused for no reason. I'm saying that the Palestinians shouldn't be held blameless and blindly supported. Well, that and that they suck.
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TD
S. Moderator
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Posted: Thu Oct 29th, 2009 10:26 pm |
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Πίτα wrote: supporting suicide bombers (they are rockstars over there) This is a serious inaccuracy at best and an out right lie at worst, Palestinian support for suicide bombing has been mixed amongst the Palestinian Population for almost a decade3 .
The Palestinians are filth because they glorify sending their children to blow themselves up along with civilians on buses. And yet the Israelis' are not?
how is blowing up a bus any different dropping a bunch of bombs into a densely populated area and not giving a shi* about who or what you hit.
And you can call me a racist, if you like, but that just makes you sound stupid. The Palestinians are not a race. They are Arab. The Palestinians are actually a sub-group of the Arab race, similar to the way both Slovakia and Serbia are both 'Slavic' but have totally diffrent histories because of where they live, mind you the Palestinian culture is much younger than the two nations i just listed, but the fact is your argument doesn't really stand here. Even if it did why on earth do you think it's okay? If only hate all the black people in my neighborhood how does that make me any different from an 'actual' racist.
Look, TD I'm sure your a good person and all but your retoric is absolutely infuriating, if there is one thing that we can learn from Gaza its if you treat people like rabid animals, if you lock them up in a cage with out any food or water, then they are going to start acting like animals,if you truly think you're better than these people then give them the respect you believe that they don't give you, because unless Israel decided to go nuclear then then the Palestinian are going to be around a lot longer than you, and you and your apathy would have accomplished nothing.
1http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/reports/archive/international/israel_poll.shtml
2http://www.btselem.org/english/Statistics/Casualties.asp
3 http://www.jmcc.org/publicpoll/results/2006/no57.pdf
OK, I want to address 4 points out of your post. First, nice job on supporting your argument with links and so forth, and also, nice pics. It made your argument much more compelling. Not convincing, but compelling.
Ok, first point, let's get the racist thing out of the way. If someone hates a group, and that group happens to be all the same race, it doesn't make them racist. Racists hate the group because they are that certain race. I don't really hate the Palestinians, and certainly not because they are Arab. I just think they suck as a group and don't deserve the blind support they get from liberals. I ain't feelin them.
Ok, now onto the bombs vs. buses being blown up. I'm pretty sure the bombs are a response to the rockets, and that they truly try to target the terrorists. Yes, there is collateral damage, but here's a thought: distance yourself from the terrorists. Don't allow them to use your home or neighborhood to shoot rockets, and you won't get bombed!
I don't think Israeli's are glorifying suicide bombers. I think Palestininas are. Maybe I'm fooled by some super secret plot by the media to make the Isreali's seem like the victims while they hatch their evil Jew plots. Or maybe it is what it is - the Palestinians do celebrate events like 9/11 and they do glorify terrorism. Maybe it's somewhere in between. Either way, I'm just tired of liberals giving them a free pass.
Maybe support for the bombers is "mixed" as you say. Support for terrorists is pretty much non-existent in civilized countries.
Finally, why tell me you are sure I'm a good person? You have no information to support this, and it comes across as patronizing. I don't give a good crap about some moralistic judgment of my character by you or anyone else.
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Hughmac
Member
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Posted: Fri Oct 30th, 2009 08:56 pm |
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TD wrote: Of course, according to Hugh, I've oppressed them and probably deserve to have my house shelled or the bus I'm riding blown up.
What??? You got a straw glut going on over their, Mr TD??? Has somebody hacked into your account, Mr TD, and set about destroying your credibility by posting this kind of tripe in your guise? Got news for you, Mr TD, they're doing a bloody good job of it, believe me.
You do not answer anything that kicks shi* out of your stunningly obstinate Pro-Israel attitude, do you and God known there has been plenty of it on this thread.
Come on, Mr TD. Answer with honesty what you, in particularly, and your like-minded compatriots, would have felt had the British:
1) fired air-to-ground missiles into crowded Catholic housing in Northern Ireland.
2) If the British Army had set about destroying the homes of known IRA gunmen with the freaking granny still inside;
3) If the British Army had callously driven over a young US women with a bloody great bulldozer as you tried to prevent them bulldozing a families house;
4) If the Royal Air Force had droped a one tonne bomb in the middle of a crowded street, killing fourteen civilians, just to get one IRA leader?
I'll give you a freakin clue, Mr TD... They would have gone ape shi*, called the British murdering bastards, broken off diplomatic ties AND ALL WITH GOOD REASON.
Yet you, inexplicably obtuse Pro-Israeli Americans can only go into zombie mode, applaud the bloody Israelis and bleat, "Israel had the right to defend itself" Get real!
Now, when you have given an honest appraisal of what I have written above, recognised your dual morality, then leaf through the nearest dictionary and see if you can find a word that describes your double values. Hint one: you will find it towards the end of the H section. Hint Two: it isn't the word "Honest."
Yet, as you say, there is little point in discussing this further because you are incapable of being fair where the Israeli/Palestinian question is discussed and that your abject labelling of the entire Palestinian people as "scum" makes any kind of reasoning with you an entirely fruitless exercise.
Finally, nobody deserves to be shelled or have the bus that they are travelling on blown up, Mr TD, so please take your observation that you have attributed to me and shove it where the sun doesn't shine, in good ol Texas fashion.
Hughmac
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Hughmac
Member
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Posted: Fri Oct 30th, 2009 09:24 pm |
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jbarn wrote: Sure, sure, run away.
 Is that supposed to be some kind of adult comment, Mr jbarn? Why not just add, Nah, nah, nah-nah, nah!
Guess what? I work and don't normally post here from the 20th on, when I'm busy in the real world. Trust that is not to traumatic for you?
No, I mean the big list of European dictators that you push overs just allowed to take your own countries without a fight because being loud and doing something about it just wasn't the proper European way.
Let me see... Dictator in Britain... without a fight... Oh yes, we had one, The Lord Protector of the English Commonwealth, also known as dear old Oliver around 1650... Oh wait, that's pre-American Revolution so he's your ex-dictator too! How jolly inconvenient for you... Old Bean
Big list of European dictators... Hitler, Mussolini Franco. Hmmm. I seem to recall that you chappies were quite reluctant to actually fight them, strangely enough. You know, know, Britain and the Blitz and the French up to their nuts in Panzers. Where were you again at the time, by the way?
And of course, dear Franco - the fascist dictator that you bunged money at in the 50's, so that you could have bases here and the bosterious blighter could hang on for another 20 years. You know, that little bloke who was great mates with Hitler and Mussolini and had soldiers fighting on the Eastern Front in German uniforms? Ring a bell?
I'm talking about the government of the people and for the people who won't allow dictators rule over their own land... You're talking about the Government of the people, for the people, who are dab hands at installing dictators in the Americas, Southern Asia, Middle East.
Actually, summing up and reading between the lines, dear Mr jbarns, you're actually talking complete and utter crap, so be a spendid chappie and piss off otherwise I am just going to have to be even more stuck up, to stoke that inferiority complex of yours that you have and which you wheel round in a wheelbarrow, otherwise you'd do you back in, right?
Tally Ho!
Hughmac
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TR1985
Member
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Posted: Fri Oct 30th, 2009 10:08 pm |
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Hughmac wrote: jbarn wrote: Sure, sure, run away.
Is that supposed to be some kind of adult comment, Mr jbarn? Why not just add, Nah, nah, nah-nah, nah!
Guess what? I work and don't normally post here from the 20th on, when I'm busy in the real world. Trust that is not to traumatic for you?
No, I mean the big list of European dictators that you push overs just allowed to take your own countries without a fight because being loud and doing something about it just wasn't the proper European way.
Let me see... Dictator in Britain... without a fight... Oh yes, we had one, The Lord Protector of the English Commonwealth, also known as dear old Oliver around 1650... Oh wait, that's pre-American Revolution so he's your ex-dictator too! How jolly inconvenient for you... Old Bean
Big list of European dictators... Hitler, Mussolini Franco. Hmmm. I seem to recall that you chappies were quite reluctant to actually fight them, strangely enough. You know, know, Britain and the Blitz and the French up to their nuts in Panzers. Where were you again at the time, by the way?
And of course, dear Franco - the fascist dictator that you bunged money at in the 50's, so that you could have bases here and the bosterious blighter could hang on for another 20 years. You know, that little bloke who was great mates with Hitler and Mussolini and had soldiers fighting on the Eastern Front in German uniforms? Ring a bell?
I'm talking about the government of the people and for the people who won't allow dictators rule over their own land... You're talking about the Government of the people, for the people, who are dab hands at installing dictators in the Americas, Southern Asia, Middle East.
Actually, summing up and reading between the lines, dear Mr jbarns, you're actually talking complete and utter crap, so be a spendid chappie and piss off otherwise I am just going to have to be even more stuck up, to stoke that inferiority complex of yours that you have and which you wheel round in a wheelbarrow, otherwise you'd do you back in, right?
Tally Ho!
Hughmac
It isn't America's role to rid Europe of dictators and quite frankly the USA was suckered into the first world war and gained nothing from it.
As for dictators we install around the world, you place far too much blame on us, and not those societies or other agencies, because we are not that powerful as you imagine. We may nudge, and we cut deals, but we aren't a God or a Superman. The Shah and Pinochet were far more active and responsible for putting themselves in power than was the USA.
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TD
S. Moderator
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Posted: Sat Oct 31st, 2009 12:44 am |
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Hughmac wrote: TD wrote: Of course, according to Hugh, I've oppressed them and probably deserve to have my house shelled or the bus I'm riding blown up.
What??? You got a straw glut going on over their, Mr TD??? Has somebody hacked into your account, Mr TD, and set about destroying your credibility by posting this kind of tripe in your guise? Got news for you, Mr TD, they're doing a bloody good job of it, believe me. Fantastic argument - if I don't agree with your Palestinian coddling, then someone hacked my account. I can see why you lead with that though - it's about as good an argument as you have.
You do not answer anything that kicks shi* out of your stunningly obstinate Pro-Israel attitude, do you and God known there has been plenty of it on this thread.
When I see an argument worth responding to, I will. I'll I've seen you do is rip on the Israeli's and act like the Palestininas are boyscouts. My attitude isn't pro-Isreali, it's anti Palestinian.
Come on, Mr TD. Answer with honesty what you, in particularly, and your like-minded compatriots, would have felt had the British:
1) fired air-to-ground missiles into crowded Catholic housing in Northern Ireland.
2) If the British Army had set about destroying the homes of known IRA gunmen with the freaking granny still inside;
3) If the British Army had callously driven over a young US women with a bloody great bulldozer as you tried to prevent them bulldozing a families house;
4) If the Royal Air Force had droped a one tonne bomb in the middle of a crowded street, killing fourteen civilians, just to get one IRA leader?
I'll give you a freakin clue, Mr TD... They would have gone ape shi*, called the British murdering bastards, broken off diplomatic ties AND ALL WITH GOOD REASON.
You can't give what you don't have, Hugh. BTW, the British, historically, are murdering bastards, but we're talking about the Palestinians here. You seem to want to talk about anything but them - you'll talk about Britain, call the US worse than the Palestinians, and demonstrate an alarming anti-semetic attitude (how do you like it?).
Yet you, inexplicably obtuse Pro-Israeli Americans can only go into zombie mode, applaud the bloody Israelis and bleat, "Israel had the right to defend itself" Get real!
Just because you don't understand something, it doesn't mean everyone else is obtuse. You blindly defend the Palestinians and blame the Jews for everything that happens, and then accuse me of being pro-Israeli. Weak sauce. Do you have a real argument or any real information aside from just denying everything the Palestinians do? What's next? Are you going to deny the holocaust? Maybe the Germans were justified in what they did - maybe the Jews bulldozed some of their houses or built a wall or some such. Thoughts?
Now, when you have given an honest appraisal of what I have written above, recognised your dual morality, then leaf through the nearest dictionary and see if you can find a word that describes your double values. Hint one: you will find it towards the end of the H section. Hint Two: it isn't the word "Honest."
When you say "Honest", if you mean complete and total horseshi*, then I think we're on the same page about your post.
Yet, as you say, there is little point in discussing this further because you are incapable of being fair where the Israeli/Palestinian question is discussed and that your abject labelling of the entire Palestinian people as "scum" makes any kind of reasoning with you an entirely fruitless exercise.
And yet you continue the "discussion". And you continue to blindly defend people who are scum.
Finally, nobody deserves to be shelled or have the bus that they are travelling on blown up, Mr TD, so please take your observation that you have attributed to me and shove it where the sun doesn't shine, in good ol Texas fashion.
Hughmac
And now, we have your 2nd best argument - shove it. So now, I've addressed your 2 best arguments - shove it, and someone must have hacked into my account. Nothing has changed, you still blindly support the terrorist scum Palestinians, blaming all their murderous activities on the Israelis, and you claim victory in an argument where you haven't made a single point worth addressing.
Nice work. I'm feeling pretty good about my position on the Palestinians at this point.
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Hughmac
Member
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Posted: Sat Oct 31st, 2009 09:07 am |
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TR1985 wrote: It isn't America's role to rid Europe of dictators and quite frankly the USA was suckered into the first world war and gained nothing from it.
As for dictators we install around the world, you place far too much blame on us, and not those societies or other agencies, because we are not that powerful as you imagine. We may nudge, and we cut deals, but we aren't a God or a Superman. The Shah and Pinochet were far more active and responsible for putting themselves in power than was the USA.
Mr Tr1985, I am responding to a pouting Mr jbarns who brought up the whole subject on dictators - I was responding in kind to his squeaky-clean, America's-so-wonderful-my-shi* don't-stink eulogy.
Of course it isn't America's role to get rid of dictators in Europe and Europeans were and are very grateful for America's help in that sad episode. As for the dictators set up by the States in Las Americas, the Europeans were quite happy with those that were set up there and set up quite a few themselves, primarily in Africa.
As for the First World War, like the following war, the US entered to protect its own comercial interests (maritime) How were they suckered?
The Shah and Pinochet: neither could have taken power, and more importantly, retained it, without US military backing. In the case of the Shah, with a little help from their friends; the UK
As for not being Gods or Supermen: You guys did it how the British and French did it as colonial powers, which did not require diety status or wearing your underpants outside your trousers and sporting a ridiculous quiff
Cheers
Hughmac
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Hughmac
Member
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Posted: Sat Oct 31st, 2009 09:43 am |
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Mr TD, never have I seen such a concentrated dose of doging in my entire perspective life.
1) Your false statements:
A) according to Hugh, I've oppressed them and probably deserve to have my house shelled or the bus I'm riding blown up.
Did you address my pointing this out? Nope.
B) ...and demonstrate an alarming anti-semetic attitude
I was wondering when that mofu would crop up. This is the favourite for Pro-Israeli Americans when they can't defend their attitute with logic. Funnilly enough, the only people that ever level that against me are Americans and not posters from Israel or any Jewish posters.
3) You blindly defend the Palestinians and blame the Jews for everything that happens.
I have repeatedly and roundly criticised the use of terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians, Mr TD... so where is the blind support for the Palestinians? Blind support would mean my condoning their actions?
I don't blame Jews for everything and, by the way, wouldn't you just love to bring this down to the Israeli being Jews, eh - nice try. This is about Israel, buddy: not all Israelis are Jews and not all Jews are Israelis. How you like to forget that, eh? so that you use your anti-semitic crap![[eyeroll]](/forums/themes/default/sarcasm.gif)
4) you still blindly support the terrorist scum Palestinians
Here we go again check out link below and that get back and have the balls, Mr TD, to correct this statement.
LINK
2) What you continually avoid:
My high-lighting the two completely opposed set of values that you hold for the Israelis and the rest of the world; i.e., what the US reaction would have been to the British had they used the same tactics that Israeli does on the Irish.
I've posted this four times in the hope of your finding a spot of moral backbone, yet even now, you slip into 'cop-out over drive'
Concluding: When I make the sarcastic comment that somebody must have hacked into your account it underlines the fact that the high regard that I had for you as a poster is at complete odds with this visceral garbage that you are spewing here because somebody that can repeatedly come out with several million men, women and children are SCUM does not fit in with my previously held opinion of you as a poster.
Now, you can grow some balls, buddy and answer the hypothetical analogy between Israel/Palestine vs Brits/Irish and you can also use that same testicular growth to click on the link provided and admit that your accusations total crap.
Any chance, Mr TD? Doubt it, of course, but what the hell
Cheers
Hughmac
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