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Froggy
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Posted: Thu Oct 8th, 2009 04:33 am |
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In 1996, when Bill Clinton was elected, Uganda and Rwanda invaded the Congo.The armies were aided and trained by Western powers, and over the last 10-13 years a orchestrated massive genocide has taken place, caused by brutual military juntas and the desire for plunder.
Staggering in its implication, the booty for these massacres were oil, diamonds, gold, uranium, and even raw materials for the capacitor in your Sony Playstation.
Still, this level of brutality has no excuse, the worst armed massacres since WWII.
But where was the press? Multi-nationals and conglomerates... they control it.
"The British medical journal Lancet recently took greater notice of the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC) than all western media outlets combined. A group of physicians reported that about 4 million people have died since the "official" outbreak of the Congolese war in 1998 (1). The BBC reported the war in Congo has claimed more lives than any armed conflict since World War II (2). However, experts working in the Congo, and Congolese survivors, count over 10 million dead since war began in 1996-not 1998-with the U.S.-backed invasion to overthrow Zaire's President Joseph Mobutu. While the western press quantifies African deaths all the time, no statistic can quantify the suffering of the Congolese."
"Some people are aware that war in the Congo is driven by the desire to extract raw materials, including diamonds, gold, columbium tantalite (coltan), niobium, cobalt, copper, uranium and petroleum. Mining in the Congo by western companies proceeds at an unprecedented rate, and it is reported that some $6 million in raw cobalt alone-an element of superalloys essential for nuclear, chemical, aerospace and defense industries-exits DRC daily. Any analysis of the geopolitics in the Congo requires an understanding of the organized crime perpetrated through multi-national businesses, in order to understand the reasons why the Congolese people have suffered a virtually unending war since 1996."
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Africa/Congo_BehindNumbers.html
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Africa/US_Recolonization_Congo.html
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Africa/Darfurism_Uganda_US.html
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Africa/Congo%27s_Tragedy.html
Last edited on Thu Oct 8th, 2009 04:34 am by Froggy
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TD
S. Moderator
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Posted: Thu Oct 8th, 2009 08:10 am |
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| Yeah, why don't we take care of this mess before we worry about the Palestinians?
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Froggy
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Posted: Thu Oct 8th, 2009 10:04 pm |
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When I read that Bill Clinton said in support of Paul Kagame, a vicious dictator in the Congo, I thought Clinton should be arrested for supporting a war criminal.
"Paul Kagame, who was trained by the U.S. military at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, has been a regular visitor at Harvard University, the James Baker III Institute in Houston, Texas, the White House, and the Pentagon. U.S., European, and South African military interests have continued to support various factions in Central Africa, arming militias and rebel groups through proxy armies from Uganda, Rwanda, Burundi, and the Sudan People's Liberation Army (SPLA) in south Sudan. France's presence in Central Africa is based out of Gabon, the major point of French military penetration on the continent."
"Terror continued in Rwanda under the new RPA government of Paul Kagame, with Amnesty International documenting a pattern of assassinations, arbitrary imprisonment, and "disappearances." Nearly all political opponents-Tutsi or Hutu-have been labeled "genocidiares" and Amnesty International has protested that some trials and executions of accused genocidiare collaborators have been tainted and politically-motivated."
"The first Rwandan invasion of its huge neighbor to the west occurred in 1996. According to the influential "Africa Confidential" newsletter, Major Gen. Paul Kagame visited the Pentagon in August 1996, conferring with Washington prior to launching a grand plan to unseat Mobutu Sese Seko. While the U.S. public was consumed with the 1996 presidential elections, Rwanda was preparing its war against Zaire. It began with the shelling of Hum refugee camps in eastern Congo with Katusha missiles, killing non-combatants."
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Africa/Rwanda_Secret_War.html
Last edited on Thu Oct 8th, 2009 10:04 pm by Froggy
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TD
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Posted: Thu Oct 8th, 2009 10:36 pm |
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I'd like us to at least pay this issue some lipservice (I mean come one, all our platitudes on this board and bickering with the conservatives doesn't amount to a hill of beans), before I get another lecture on the "poor palestinians".
Maybe their rights are violated, or maybe the Israelis aren't "friendly" enough when they respond to attacks on their civilians... 
But these people are being slaughtered and hardly anyone seems to care. Until we do something about this, I don't want to hear about the stupid gaza strip.
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Froggy
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Posted: Fri Oct 9th, 2009 04:15 am |
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These operations are similar to the war on terror in that they need false flag operations to fool the public into intervening. With Darfur, the U.S. had been involved for years before Clooney jumped on the cause to "save it" and some of the money eventually went to the actual war criminals.
"Saving" a nation involves installing puppet regimes as in Iraq and Afghanistan then raping the resources as in the Congo.
Who got rid of the Saddam threat of "nookular" bombs only to give the oil contracts to Western oil companies?
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"the "Save Darfur" movement has become the false flag action of the West, supported by most everyone, people who know little or nothing about what it is they are supporting.
"These covert wars all involve different propaganda strategies to provide cover and deflect attention through "perception management"-managing the perceptions, stereotyping and creating false belief systems-of the North American and European public."
"The Center for Security Policy is the nerve center of the U.S. military and intelligence apparatus, a deeply nationalist, neoliberal think-tank and flak organization promoting the all-out attack against non-cooperative governments-dubbed "rogue states"-peripheral to Western economic control.
These, of course, are primarily Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria, North Korea and Cuba. Zimbabwe is a special case that has joined the list to some degree. What these states have in common is that they are all targeted for divestment by the Center for Security Policy brainchild, divestterror.org. Sudan is another of the "rogue states" targeted."
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Africa/Darfurism_Uganda_US.html
Last edited on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 04:17 am by Froggy
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TD
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Posted: Fri Oct 9th, 2009 06:04 pm |
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It's not an easy fix - intervening anywhere. This is why we get bit in the butt nearly every time we mess with another country. My point is that if we give two craps about the Palestinians - filth who allow their own children to blow themselves up, then treat them like rockstars (dead ones, like Joplin and Hendrix, I guess) - we should care about people who are being slaughtered by the millions.
At the very least, we should be able to simply over throw the brutal governments. We did a fair job in Bosnia. We could have done better in Iraq and probably Afghanistan, had Bushco not totally screwed the proverbial pooch at the beginning. Had we left the infrastructure mostly in place in Iraq (not fired everyone in the Bath party)and actually given reconstruction money to local Iraqi businesses, rather than handing it all to foreign companies who didn't do squat, then maybe things would have worked a lot smoother.
I don't know if we can intervene successfully anywhere or not. We have too many dismal failures to give me any confidence in our ability to understand and affect the situation anywhere else in the world. We can't even clean up our own yard. Still, if we are going to mess with the middle east, we should also intervene when millions are being killed. And not just us, the whole world should have responded long ago to this tragedy.
9/11, New Orleans, the Tsunami, friggin swine flu - these events get all sorts of action and attention. There were several thousand deaths, not a million, certainly not 10 million. This world has pretty messed up priorities.
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Johnny Jack
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Posted: Fri Oct 9th, 2009 08:18 pm |
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| would the press participated more if the majority of the people in africa were white?
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TD
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Posted: Fri Oct 9th, 2009 09:32 pm |
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Johnny Jack wrote:
would the press participated more if the majority of the people in africa were white?
arabs aren't white, and we seem to care about them. i think it's more about the oil producing regions of the world.
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BushFramedRogerRabbit
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Posted: Fri Oct 9th, 2009 09:51 pm |
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9/11, New Orleans, the Tsunami, friggin swine flu - these events get all sorts of action and attention. There were several thousand deaths, not a million, certainly not 10 million. This world has pretty messed up priorities.
Now here I agree with you. For years I've been trying to tell people that 9/11 (and 7/7 even more so) were merely drops in the ocean in the grand scheme of things.
Looking at the attack in perspective renders the Afghanistan war questionable, and the "war on terror" era as nothing more than one of rampant, irrational paranoia fueled by sensationalist media outlets.
Reading about what western corporations are doing in the Congo is quite sickening. All the more so because the solution to the problem is quite obvious, and doesn't even require an "intervention". All that it requires is for western governments to get their act together, find the bastard CEOs of these corporations, and lock them in padded cells. Now if Obama did that, THEN I would agree he deserves a Nobel prize!
But of course, such an act would violate our Laissez-faire economics now, wouldn't it!
Regarding the Palestinians (and I don't know why their situation was brought up, their situation is quite irrelevant to this topic.) I don't see how their resistance to human rights abuses make them "filth".
If the Sudanese were resisting, whether by firing rockets or hijacking planes or whatever, I'd gladly support them. I wouldn't call them "filth". Hell, I'd even throw them a couple of SMART missiles and fighter-jets so they could make a better fight of it. (And a more accurate one at that!)
Who's with me?
Last edited on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 09:53 pm by BushFramedRogerRabbit
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TR1985
Member
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Posted: Fri Oct 9th, 2009 09:58 pm |
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BushFramedRogerRabbit wrote: 9/11, New Orleans, the Tsunami, friggin swine flu - these events get all sorts of action and attention. There were several thousand deaths, not a million, certainly not 10 million. This world has pretty messed up priorities.
Now here I agree with you. For years I've been trying to tell people that 9/11 (and 7/7 even more so) were merely drops in the ocean in the grand scheme of things.
Looking at the attack in perspective renders the Afghanistan war questionable, and the "war on terror" era as nothing more than one of rampant, irrational paranoia fueled by sensationalist media outlets.
Reading about what western corporations are doing in the Congo is quite sickening. All the more so because the solution to the problem is quite obvious, and doesn't even require an "intervention". All that it requires is for western governments to get their act together, find the bastard CEOs of these corporations, and lock them in padded cells. Now if Obama did that, THEN I would agree he deserves a Nobel prize!
But of course, such an act would violate our Laissez-faire economics now, wouldn't it!
Regarding the Palestinians (and I don't know why their situation was brought up, their situation is quite irrelevant to this topic.) I don't see how their resistance to human rights abuses make them "filth".
If the Sudanese were resisting, whether by firing rockets or hijacking planes or whatever, I'd gladly support them. I wouldn't call them "filth". Hell, I'd even throw them a couple of SMART missiles and fighter-jets so they could make a better fight of it. (And a more accurate one at that!)
Who's with me?
America's responsibilities are to America and American citizens. So yes, I live in the USA, and what happens here is obviously much more important to me than what happens in Africa or Israel. If a politician is running for President so solve some other nation's problem, as opposed to the USA, he won't receive enough. This country has enough problems before it has to find other people's problems to solve.
President Bush was very good at funding schools and roads in Iraq and Afganistan, in the USA, not so much. I'm sorry that in England your politics revolve around the world instead of fixing your country, or at the very least, your dental system.
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BushFramedRogerRabbit
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Posted: Fri Oct 9th, 2009 10:01 pm |
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Hello again Mr TR! I think this part of my post must have slipped past you:
Reading about what western corporations are doing in the Congo is quite sickening. All the more so because the solution to the problem is quite obvious, and doesn't even require an "intervention". All that it requires is for western governments to get their act together, find the bastard CEOs of these corporations, and lock them in padded cells
It doesn't take much. The CEOs all live in your country.
And as for the Palestine/Israel situation, that doesn't take much either. Just turn off the tap and withdraw your troublesome U.N Veto.
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BushFramedRogerRabbit
Member
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Posted: Fri Oct 9th, 2009 10:09 pm |
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However......
It does seem somewhat depressing that you consider the funding of US schools as being more important than 10million dead people.
Especially when your country (according to Froggy's links) had a hand in it.
Last edited on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 10:10 pm by BushFramedRogerRabbit
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TR1985
Member
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Posted: Fri Oct 9th, 2009 10:23 pm |
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BushFramedRogerRabbit wrote: However......
It does seem somewhat depressing that you consider the funding of US schools as being more important than 10million dead people.
Especially when your country (according to Froggy's links) had a hand in it.
Our schools suck and are far, far behind Japan and South Korea and I will never vote for a politician who prioritizes fixing the Congo over fixing America's schools.
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BushFramedRogerRabbit
Member
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Posted: Fri Oct 9th, 2009 10:31 pm |
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TR1985 wrote: BushFramedRogerRabbit wrote: However......
It does seem somewhat depressing that you consider the funding of US schools as being more important than 10million dead people.
Especially when your country (according to Froggy's links) had a hand in it.
Our schools suck and are far, far behind Japan and South Korea and I will never vote for a politician who prioritizes fixing the Congo over fixing America's schools.
....Regardless of the fact that all fixing the Congo apparently seems to require is a clampdown on certain American corporations.
Ten million dead, Mr TR. Ten million.
Are you heartless, or just coldly imperialist?
TD is right, the world's priorities are most definitely screwed up.
Last edited on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 10:32 pm by BushFramedRogerRabbit
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TR1985
Member
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Posted: Fri Oct 9th, 2009 10:34 pm |
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BushFramedRogerRabbit wrote: TR1985 wrote: BushFramedRogerRabbit wrote: However......
It does seem somewhat depressing that you consider the funding of US schools as being more important than 10million dead people.
Especially when your country (according to Froggy's links) had a hand in it.
Our schools suck and are far, far behind Japan and South Korea and I will never vote for a politician who prioritizes fixing the Congo over fixing America's schools.
....Regardless of the fact that all fixing the Congo apparently seems to require is a clampdown on certain American corporations.
Ten million dead, Mr TR. Ten million.
Are you heartless, or just coldly imperialist?
TD is right, the world's priorities are most definitely screwed up.
Which American corporations? Yes. If you can go after them, do so. No, I am more of an isolationist.
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TD
S. Moderator
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Posted: Sat Oct 10th, 2009 06:12 am |
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BushFramedRogerRabbit wrote: Regarding the Palestinians (and I don't know why their situation was brought up, their situation is quite irrelevant to this topic.) I don't see how their resistance to human rights abuses make them "filth".
If the Sudanese were resisting, whether by firing rockets or hijacking planes or whatever, I'd gladly support them. I wouldn't call them "filth". Hell, I'd even throw them a couple of SMART missiles and fighter-jets so they could make a better fight of it. (And a more accurate one at that!)
Who's with me?
The Palestinians are filth because they glorify sending their children to blow themselves up along with civilians on buses. They think it is cool to be a "martyr", when all they really need to do is to stop attacking civilians and then appeal to the world community. When they can't be civilized, then why should we feel sorry for them or care what Israel does to them? I don't.
I brought up the Palestinians to illustrate how we pay attention to that tiny insignificant population when we could be trying to stop the murder of millions instead.
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BushFramedRogerRabbit
Member
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Posted: Sat Oct 10th, 2009 08:51 pm |
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TD wrote: BushFramedRogerRabbit wrote: Regarding the Palestinians (and I don't know why their situation was brought up, their situation is quite irrelevant to this topic.) I don't see how their resistance to human rights abuses make them "filth".
If the Sudanese were resisting, whether by firing rockets or hijacking planes or whatever, I'd gladly support them. I wouldn't call them "filth". Hell, I'd even throw them a couple of SMART missiles and fighter-jets so they could make a better fight of it. (And a more accurate one at that!)
Who's with me?
The Palestinians are filth because they glorify sending their children to blow themselves up along with civilians on buses. They think it is cool to be a "martyr", when all they really need to do is to stop attacking civilians and then appeal to the world community. When they can't be civilized, then why should we feel sorry for them or care what Israel does to them? I don't.
I brought up the Palestinians to illustrate how we pay attention to that tiny insignificant population when we could be trying to stop the murder of millions instead.
Good god man! The Palestinians again? For someone who doesn't care about them, you're awfully obsessed. Froggy created a perfectly good thread for discussion about the situation in Palestine, I'll reply to you in that one:
http://perspectives.com/forums/view_topic.php?id=213596&forum_id=6&page=2
With the Congolese apparently suffering from an acute lack of media attention, surely we can at least let this one thread about their plight remain on-topic?
Back on topic - How far should we go in assisting the Congolese? Any opinions?
Also of importance - has Obama mentioned anything about the situation yet?
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TD
S. Moderator
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Posted: Sat Oct 10th, 2009 09:47 pm |
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BushFramedRogerRabbit wrote: TD wrote: BushFramedRogerRabbit wrote: Regarding the Palestinians (and I don't know why their situation was brought up, their situation is quite irrelevant to this topic.) I don't see how their resistance to human rights abuses make them "filth".
If the Sudanese were resisting, whether by firing rockets or hijacking planes or whatever, I'd gladly support them. I wouldn't call them "filth". Hell, I'd even throw them a couple of SMART missiles and fighter-jets so they could make a better fight of it. (And a more accurate one at that!)
Who's with me?
The Palestinians are filth because they glorify sending their children to blow themselves up along with civilians on buses. They think it is cool to be a "martyr", when all they really need to do is to stop attacking civilians and then appeal to the world community. When they can't be civilized, then why should we feel sorry for them or care what Israel does to them? I don't.
I brought up the Palestinians to illustrate how we pay attention to that tiny insignificant population when we could be trying to stop the murder of millions instead.
Good god man! The Palestinians again? For someone who doesn't care about them, you're awfully obsessed. Froggy created a perfectly good thread for discussion about the situation in Palestine, I'll reply to you in that one:
http://perspectives.com/forums/view_topic.php?id=213596&forum_id=6&page=2
With the Congolese apparently suffering from an acute lack of media attention, surely we can at least let this one thread about their plight remain on-topic?
Back on topic - How far should we go in assisting the Congolese? Any opinions?
Also of importance - has Obama mentioned anything about the situation yet?
The reason I bring up the Palestinians is to illustrate this small group of people gets lots of attention and sympathy, but most people don't seem to care about 10 million people being slaughtered some place else. It's called compare and contrast - not an obsession, just an observation.
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Alias Emily 2
Member
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Posted: Sun Oct 11th, 2009 12:41 am |
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TD wrote: .....
But these people are being slaughtered and hardly anyone seems to care. Until we do something about this, I don't want to hear about the stupid gaza strip.
I agree.
These people desperately need help, education and population control via good contraception rather than genocide.
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Alias Emily 2
Member
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Posted: Sun Oct 11th, 2009 12:41 am |
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TD wrote: .....
But these people are being slaughtered and hardly anyone seems to care. Until we do something about this, I don't want to hear about the stupid gaza strip.
I agree.
These people desperately need help, education and population control via good contraception rather than genocide.
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