 |
| Moderated by: Wingie, VT-R, Terry, S., nNeo, mb, Lynne, kC, Heel, Freaks1932, dcbl, D |
|
|
| Author | Post |
|---|
cloudman
Member
| Joined: | Fri Aug 6th, 2004 |
| Location: | Lone Star State |
| Posts: | 14830 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 04:21 pm |
|
cloudman wrote: cloudman wrote: Scozzafava is a RINO who votes to the left of most democrats, yet Republican Party leadership endorses her.
Insanity.
Hoffman is a Conservative Republican running on a Conservative ticket because Republican leadership spurned him.
They still haven't learned. Conservative Republican win. Liberal Republicans get outliberaled by real democrats.
Hoffman will beat Scozzafava.
Scozzafava got the message. She quit.
The RINO, Scozzafava endorsed the democrat candidate.
What a surprise. ![[eyeroll]](/forums/themes/default/sarcasm.gif)
|
dwsstlouis
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 13th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 700 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 04:22 pm |
|
Such fear from the establishment, lawrence welk, tiny bubble republicans whenever Sarah uses the restroom, goes fishing, writes a book or posts on facebook.
If she is truly such a dolt - why bother with her? Why waste time with a non-threat?
Don't you see, in this day and age of super duper, typed & hyped, scripted & lifted politicians...you could end up getting her elected.
And I would never let you live it down...ever.
|
Tsalagi1
Member
|
Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 06:50 pm |
|
dwsstlouis wrote: Such fear from the establishment, lawrence welk, tiny bubble republicans whenever Sarah uses the restroom, goes fishing, writes a book or posts on facebook.
If she is truly such a dolt - why bother with her? Why waste time with a non-threat?
Don't you see, in this day and age of super duper, typed & hyped, scripted & lifted politicians...you could end up getting her elected.
And I would never let you live it down...ever.
Not fear..dread...dread over how the Press would tear her to pieces should she ever manage to run again.
|
IronBob2004
Member
|
Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 06:43 am |
|
Tsalagi1 wrote: dwsstlouis wrote: Such fear from the establishment, lawrence welk, tiny bubble republicans whenever Sarah uses the restroom, goes fishing, writes a book or posts on facebook.
If she is truly such a dolt - why bother with her? Why waste time with a non-threat?
Don't you see, in this day and age of super duper, typed & hyped, scripted & lifted politicians...you could end up getting her elected.
And I would never let you live it down...ever.
Not fear..dread...dread over how the Press would tear her to pieces should she ever manage to run again.
So what you're saying is that you're afraid of "the Press".
|
IronBob2004
Member
|
Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 06:46 am |
|
tom_in_sac wrote:
Palin is an idiot. Do you get that? An idiot. Sure, she's attractive, she's got the same chunky hipster glasses as the liberal hipsters, but she's still an idiot. I didn't believe that when McCain picked her, but I damned well know it now.
Actually I've thought the same of you for a long time. As of yet, you haven't let me down. Now the only question remaining is whether you are dog-ass ugly.
|
Tsalagi1
Member
|
Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 01:05 pm |
|
IronBob2004 wrote: Tsalagi1 wrote: dwsstlouis wrote: Such fear from the establishment, lawrence welk, tiny bubble republicans whenever Sarah uses the restroom, goes fishing, writes a book or posts on facebook.
If she is truly such a dolt - why bother with her? Why waste time with a non-threat?
Don't you see, in this day and age of super duper, typed & hyped, scripted & lifted politicians...you could end up getting her elected.
And I would never let you live it down...ever.
Not fear..dread...dread over how the Press would tear her to pieces should she ever manage to run again.
So what you're saying is that you're afraid of "the Press".
Afraid no...dread is not the same as fear...c'mon, you're not stupid....an idealogue perhaps, but not stupid...you know full well, that she'd be shredded in the process. She's given so much ammunition to the Dems I could fill up an entire warehouse full of potential quips.
The Press is going to display Palin for all to see...she won't be able to hide behind her comfy-down-hominess on National television or the Internet. She's a quitter, you don't think that's going to affect her standing...there are a million reasons not to run her Bob...for the love of the Gods, there are plenty other Republican women, competent, intelligent, politically saavy, scandal-free women we could check out, why on EARTH is the right wing of the GOP so fixated on her?
|
Thoughtless
Member
|
Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 02:21 pm |
|
Tsalagi1 wrote: IronBob2004 wrote: Tsalagi1 wrote: dwsstlouis wrote: Such fear from the establishment, lawrence welk, tiny bubble republicans whenever Sarah uses the restroom, goes fishing, writes a book or posts on facebook.
If she is truly such a dolt - why bother with her? Why waste time with a non-threat?
Don't you see, in this day and age of super duper, typed & hyped, scripted & lifted politicians...you could end up getting her elected.
And I would never let you live it down...ever.
Not fear..dread...dread over how the Press would tear her to pieces should she ever manage to run again.
So what you're saying is that you're afraid of "the Press".
Afraid no...dread is not the same as fear...c'mon, you're not stupid....an idealogue perhaps, but not stupid...you know full well, that she'd be shredded in the process. She's given so much ammunition to the Dems I could fill up an entire warehouse full of potential quips.
The Press is going to display Palin for all to see...she won't be able to hide behind her comfy-down-hominess on National television or the Internet. She's a quitter, you don't think that's going to affect her standing...there are a million reasons not to run her Bob...for the love of the Gods, there are plenty other Republican women, competent, intelligent, politically saavy, scandal-free women we could check out, why on EARTH is the right wing of the GOP so fixated on her?
I don't understand this phenomena as well. From the moment I first heard of Sarah Palin, I gave her every chance I could, as the Republican vice-presidential candidate, to receive my support. She was to me, if anything, a huge let-down.
I don't hate Sarah Palin, and I appreciate what she stands for and all of that. But most of what she has said and done, since I first hear her name, has convinced me that she couldn't run a car wash, much less a country. If she were the only Republican woman in the world, and we had a mandate to run a woman, it would be different, but she isn't, and we don't, so her candidacy is out of question, as far as I'm concerned. If we can't find someone better than this to represent our party, then we're toast.
My opposition to Palin centers around three fundamental problems:
1) She's unelectable in the general election. She has very strong support, with a politically active group of conservatives, but an equal number of politically active people can't stand here. People that aren't interested, or involved in politics, tend to see her as a diva and drama queen.
2) I personally think she would be a very poor leader of the country. She talks in platitudes, and emotions, and seems to me, to have zero grasp of what it takes to get anything done. She's the Jesse Jackson of the right wing - a talker that never fixed a single thing, and may has little interest in doing so.
3) She annoys the hell out of me. I don't think I could take an extended campaign, with her on TV every night whining about late night TV jokes jokes or interviewers asking hard questions. I can't stand the "everybody's always picking on me" attitude from anybody, much less someone that claims to be the conservative spokesperson.
|
Philly Rabbit
Member
| Joined: | Fri Oct 21st, 2005 |
| Location: | Middle Class, USA |
| Posts: | 4124 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 07:12 pm |
|
NO Republican conservative woman could ever hope to come close to capturing the imagination of the entire country as has Palin.
She's drawing big crowds everywhere she goes.
She's drawing on average, 15 -20 thousand people on a school night.
She's the future of conservative America.
And she's one of us ... straight from the working middle class.
|
dwsstlouis
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 13th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 700 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 09:17 pm |
|
Speaking for myself, as one who is often (and laughably) smeared as a far right knuckle dragger:
She is anti republican establishment, and they are the ones who got us into this mess with a large assist the religious right. People are way in the mood for anti establishment anything when it comes to politics right about now.
I don't believe for a minute she is the demon or the dolt people claim her to be. None of you knew a thing of her before last year and had to dig deep to find peanuts. Yes peanuts. I see far worse from established republicans all the time.
She is more experienced than are current president.
She is more experienced than are current president.
She is more experienced than are current president.
The fact that she gets attacked by both sides tells me she is on to something good. 'Cause both sides are messed up.
I don't ever recall her whining or complaining - just setting about taking care of business.
I see nothing in what she said so far that would make me thing she would drag her personal faith cloud her grasp of the constitution.
Some of you strike me as simply lukewarm repulican elitists and every bit as harmful as the reiligious right.
|
dwsstlouis
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 13th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 700 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 11:30 pm |
|
Did I mention she is more qualified than Obama?
If all you republican Palin naysayers had to choose this very day between Obama and Palin - who would you choose? Probably Obama as you spend more time bashing Palin than you do the one who is less qualified than you argue Sarah to be! How can this be?
Frankly, I just can't fathom all the hatin' for palin. You absolutely must feel threatened by her.
She is simply not all the things you accuse her of (this I believe, and this you have not, to date, properly defended) and I hope like hell she comes back to haunt you.
The verdict on Palin and the conservative movement she represents is still out. However, I can assure you of a few things: It will not be made by you, the Palin haters, it will be made based on the number of people who do not share your views nor spread your smears. You are quite simply as foul as the birthers. And I mantain my belief that you are threatened..scared...pussy. Not "concerned" for the GOP as you calim to be. fuc* the GOP! You can have Steele and his asswipes.
It will be based upon the number of people throughout every parish, community, farm town and big city that identifies with her.
I might be wrong...I was woefully wrong about Obama.
But until that is made clear I say GO fuc*ING CUDA! Bite the shi* out of them - even if a few pussy republicans fall by the wayside.
|
IronBob2004
Member
|
Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 05:36 am |
|
Tsalagi1 wrote: IronBob2004 wrote: Tsalagi1 wrote: dwsstlouis wrote: Such fear from the establishment, lawrence welk, tiny bubble republicans whenever Sarah uses the restroom, goes fishing, writes a book or posts on facebook.
If she is truly such a dolt - why bother with her? Why waste time with a non-threat?
Don't you see, in this day and age of super duper, typed & hyped, scripted & lifted politicians...you could end up getting her elected.
And I would never let you live it down...ever.
Not fear..dread...dread over how the Press would tear her to pieces should she ever manage to run again.
So what you're saying is that you're afraid of "the Press".
Afraid no...dread is not the same as fear...c'mon, you're not stupid....an idealogue perhaps, but not stupid...you know full well, that she'd be shredded in the process. She's given so much ammunition to the Dems I could fill up an entire warehouse full of potential quips.
I don't dread the Press because I see it for what it is. A business whose main clientele are idiots and stooges who feed at whatever media is fed to them all for the purpose of selling a damn Nestle bar to their fat asses. The only dread I feel is that there are actually people out there that were stupid enough to fall for the Katie Couric style of journalism.
The Press is going to display Palin for all to see...she won't be able to hide behind her comfy-down-hominess on National television or the Internet. She's a quitter, you don't think that's going to affect her standing...there are a million reasons not to run her Bob...for the love of the Gods, there are plenty other Republican women, competent, intelligent, politically saavy, scandal-free women we could check out, why on EARTH is the right wing of the GOP so fixated on her?
WTF are you talking about??? SHE'S A QUITTER??? Are you out of your GD mind!? She resigned for the most pure reason that anyone has ever given for resigning. She was sick of pukes like you dragging her state down and now she's going to kick your teeth in. Get ready for it.
I'll tell you why the GOP is fixated on her. She's the perfect example of the kind of BS that conservative women have to put up with from the likes of you and the garbage the rest of the left spews out on a daily basis. You want to know why the GOP is fixated on her all you and dregs like Tom need to do is get off your asses and go look in the mirror.
I'm sorry but what I've noticed is that people like you are ok with GOP women getting some power as long as they either aren't "too conservative" or ugly dog-faced beatches that look more like men then women and vote liberal 51% of the time.
|
Tsalagi1
Member
|
Posted: Thu Nov 5th, 2009 09:59 am |
|
IronBob2004 wrote: Tsalagi1 wrote: IronBob2004 wrote: Tsalagi1 wrote: dwsstlouis wrote: Such fear from the establishment, lawrence welk, tiny bubble republicans whenever Sarah uses the restroom, goes fishing, writes a book or posts on facebook.
If she is truly such a dolt - why bother with her? Why waste time with a non-threat?
Don't you see, in this day and age of super duper, typed & hyped, scripted & lifted politicians...you could end up getting her elected.
And I would never let you live it down...ever.
Not fear..dread...dread over how the Press would tear her to pieces should she ever manage to run again.
So what you're saying is that you're afraid of "the Press".
Afraid no...dread is not the same as fear...c'mon, you're not stupid....an idealogue perhaps, but not stupid...you know full well, that she'd be shredded in the process. She's given so much ammunition to the Dems I could fill up an entire warehouse full of potential quips.
I don't dread the Press because I see it for what it is. A business whose main clientele are idiots and stooges who feed at whatever media is fed to them all for the purpose of selling a damn Nestle bar to their fat asses. The only dread I feel is that there are actually people out there that were stupid enough to fall for the Katie Couric style of journalism.
The Press is going to display Palin for all to see...she won't be able to hide behind her comfy-down-hominess on National television or the Internet. She's a quitter, you don't think that's going to affect her standing...there are a million reasons not to run her Bob...for the love of the Gods, there are plenty other Republican women, competent, intelligent, politically saavy, scandal-free women we could check out, why on EARTH is the right wing of the GOP so fixated on her?
WTF are you talking about??? SHE'S A QUITTER??? Are you out of your GD mind!? She resigned for the most pure reason that anyone has ever given for resigning. She was sick of pukes like you dragging her state down and now she's going to kick your teeth in. Get ready for it.
I'll tell you why the GOP is fixated on her. She's the perfect example of the kind of BS that conservative women have to put up with from the likes of you and the garbage the rest of the left spews out on a daily basis. You want to know why the GOP is fixated on her all you and dregs like Tom need to do is get off your asses and go look in the mirror.
I'm sorry but what I've noticed is that people like you are ok with GOP women getting some power as long as they either aren't "too conservative" or ugly dog-faced beatches that look more like men then women and vote liberal 51% of the time.
Yes...a quitter...a year and a half into her term,she up and quits..and her reason was a lame ass way out of dealing with reality and the stress that goes along with the job.
It's not the "GOP" that is fixated, but the right wing of the GOP...big difference..and I'm just fine with conservative women in positions of power...and I've never before made mention of a beauty litmus test for office.
As I've stated..I can bring up a list of good Republican women, more politically saavy then Palin is, more experience in Congress, more experience in the private sector, way more intelligent, and able to handle a damn interview without flubbing it.
As for Couric, the woman pitched so easy she might as well been playing t-ball with Palin..and she couldn't even get that right.
Let's call her what it is Bob...a couple term mayor of a city of 8,000 people who dabbled in some oil capacity, a former beauty queen who took 6 years to get a degree in sports journalism, and then once elected to Governor, quit after a year and a half in office...and you say she's fit for the Oval Office?
|
bajazet
Member
| Joined: | Fri Jul 3rd, 2009 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 43 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Nov 5th, 2009 11:49 am |
|
Tsalagi1 wrote: Philly Rabbit wrote: She's pro fiscal responsibility .. pro national defense .. anti federal income tax structure .. pro second amendment private gun ownership.
But wait!
She's also pro life .. anti abortion on demand .. pro traditional marriage ... and a white Christian evangelical.
= idiot.
Fiscal conservative...but puts a town of 8,000 in debt to the tune of 20 million, and for what..a sports arena...ahuh...and you call this fiscal responsibility?
Pro-National Defense..so are most Republicans as a rule, nothing new here.
Anti-Federal income tax structure...so are most Republicans as a rule, nothing new here.
Pro-2nd Amendment...again..so are most Republicans as a rule...nothing new here...
Took 6 years to get a degree in...wait for it...sports journalism????
Can't name one single solitary source of media she gleans information from in an Nationally Televised interview...yet her own Capitol has 2 newspaper dailies.
Can't name one single solitary USSC case that affirms the 2nd Amendment or on issue of gun-control, although Washington DC just lifted it's ban on firearms, DC, a city obstensibly where she'd be called upon to work in..
Pimped her family for "tradiitonal values"...only to have her daughter get pregnant out of wedlock (whom she also taught abstinence only education btw)..and then using her daughter's baby father as furtherance of "traditional values" saying they were going to get married anyway...but when the campaign was over...suddenly the marriage didn't go forth...gee..like I couldn't see that happening...
Finally...the nail in her political coffin as far as I'm concerned...she's a quitter...when the heat came on her as Governor of the State of Alaska...she folded like a deck of cards, completing less then half her term as Governor...and you'd want this kind of woman in the Oval Office????
I could care less what religion she is, what color she is, etc..etc...as Tom-n-sac said, she's stupid, and utterly unsuitable for anything other then Anchorage's KTBY (Fox affiliate) as the Weather Girl.
pimping children and white christians...good grief. seems to me we need to purge the party of these sexist and racist creeps to.
|
dwsstlouis
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 13th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 700 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Nov 5th, 2009 04:51 pm |
|
Tsalagi1 wrote: IronBob2004 wrote: Tsalagi1 wrote: IronBob2004 wrote: Tsalagi1 wrote: dwsstlouis wrote: Such fear from the establishment, lawrence welk, tiny bubble republicans whenever Sarah uses the restroom, goes fishing, writes a book or posts on facebook.
If she is truly such a dolt - why bother with her? Why waste time with a non-threat?
Don't you see, in this day and age of super duper, typed & hyped, scripted & lifted politicians...you could end up getting her elected.
And I would never let you live it down...ever.
Not fear..dread...dread over how the Press would tear her to pieces should she ever manage to run again.
So what you're saying is that you're afraid of "the Press".
Afraid no...dread is not the same as fear...c'mon, you're not stupid....an idealogue perhaps, but not stupid...you know full well, that she'd be shredded in the process. She's given so much ammunition to the Dems I could fill up an entire warehouse full of potential quips.
I don't dread the Press because I see it for what it is. A business whose main clientele are idiots and stooges who feed at whatever media is fed to them all for the purpose of selling a damn Nestle bar to their fat asses. The only dread I feel is that there are actually people out there that were stupid enough to fall for the Katie Couric style of journalism.
The Press is going to display Palin for all to see...she won't be able to hide behind her comfy-down-hominess on National television or the Internet. She's a quitter, you don't think that's going to affect her standing...there are a million reasons not to run her Bob...for the love of the Gods, there are plenty other Republican women, competent, intelligent, politically saavy, scandal-free women we could check out, why on EARTH is the right wing of the GOP so fixated on her?
WTF are you talking about??? SHE'S A QUITTER??? Are you out of your GD mind!? She resigned for the most pure reason that anyone has ever given for resigning. She was sick of pukes like you dragging her state down and now she's going to kick your teeth in. Get ready for it.
I'll tell you why the GOP is fixated on her. She's the perfect example of the kind of BS that conservative women have to put up with from the likes of you and the garbage the rest of the left spews out on a daily basis. You want to know why the GOP is fixated on her all you and dregs like Tom need to do is get off your asses and go look in the mirror.
I'm sorry but what I've noticed is that people like you are ok with GOP women getting some power as long as they either aren't "too conservative" or ugly dog-faced beatches that look more like men then women and vote liberal 51% of the time.
Yes...a quitter...a year and a half into her term,she up and quits..and her reason was a lame ass way out of dealing with reality and the stress that goes along with the job.
Lame? Fending off unprecedented legal attacks from without and within and not wanting it to hurt the office? Knowing her very presence would forever be in the way of governing the state? Not dealing with reality? Making some quick cash to cover the bills and answer the charges? I view this as smartly and boldly dealing with reality. Can you name another political figure who had to deal with all that was on her plate? And , mind you, she is not a Kennedy, with all their resources to make things go away.
It's not the "GOP" that is fixated, but the right wing of the GOP...big difference..and I'm just fine with conservative women in positions of power...and I've never before made mention of a beauty litmus test for office. Myself and my like minded political family and friends are not right wing by any stretch. Right of center fiscally, yes, but pretty moderate in most other areas - but always a tad to the right. So it would seem to me, based on my personal experience, that you are errantly tarring a whole hell of a lot of folks with the same gunk the liberals throw at us. After all, we are just disagreeing pretty much on just this one issue. After agreeing on many social issues including the religious right, which I don't believe Palin is part of, the drug war and gay rights v. the constitution.
As I've stated..I can bring up a list of good Republican women, more politically saavy then Palin is, more experience in Congress, more experience in the private sector, way more intelligent, and able to handle a damn interview without flubbing it. You've threatened to in the past, but I don't recall you ever doing so. Could very well be my faulty memory - but why not do so here so we can have a look? Let's put whomever you put up under the glass with the same scrutiny readily and eagerly afforded Palin. Voting records, scandals, experience, land title disputes over stadium deals etc...BTW, the only references I can find to this stadium issue of yours is obscure liberal offerings that actually put the damage at 1.3 mil. Maybe you can include your sources for this as well. I'm sure you have it all at the ready.
As for Couric, the woman pitched so easy she might as well been playing t-ball with Palin..and she couldn't even get that right. So she wasn't as polished or prepared as she could have been. If that is what you value in a politician - then Obama's your man. I've watched it many times and still don't find nearly as bad as her enemies. You do realize she was on the stage for a very short time and she did not seek the position? They asked her, not the other way around.
Let's call her what it is Bob...a couple term mayor of a city of 8,000 people who dabbled in some oil capacity, a former beauty queen who took 6 years to get a degree in sports journalism, and then once elected to Governor, quit after a year and a half in office...and you say she's fit for the Oval Office?
Whom I would take any day of the week including Sunday over a community organizer and a novice senator who immediately quit his post to start campaigning. Unless you call "present" actually working.
Again, choose this day - if your choices were limited to Obama or Palin...would would it be?
Do you believe Obama is more fit than Palin?
Now let me be clear on this, most importantly. In conventional times, I believe your concerns to be quite valid. But while the GOP was being..."valid" in their selection process, the other side easily put up a far left socialist rock star. How valid do you still want to be. The times, apparently, are a changin'. All past bets are off as far as I can see. If Obama can get in with all his baggage...well...something has definately changed.
I know you will likely see this as piss poor reasoning, but how is it as far as reality goes? Perhaps it's time to put away the Lawrence Welk and put on some Jerry Doucette?
|
tom_in_sac
Member
| Joined: | Wed Nov 7th, 2007 |
| Location: | Sacramento, CA |
| Posts: | 2027 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Nov 5th, 2009 05:18 pm |
|
dwsstlouis wrote: Do you believe Obama is more fit than Palin?
First fail-ups in logic: false dichotomy, and an attempt to pose an improper question. Those were not the choices we had. And, for the record, we don't actually know enough about how Obama will govern to say anything meaningful, at least not yet. We do know that instead of governing, Palin chose to resign, for whatever reasons you want to believe.
But while the GOP was being..."valid" in their selection process, the other side easily put up a far left socialist rock star.
Next fail-ups: mistaking correlation for causation, an outright falsehood and affirming the unknown. There were many factors involved in Obama's election, and you so far demonstrate no ability to quantify the weight of any one factor, or even properly list them. And the election was not "easy", Obama won with only 53% of the vote, where McCain got 46% and a third party got 3%, which lays bare your falsehood. Finally, Obama has not yet proven himself to be the Bolshevik we fear. Indeed, he's not done much of anything other than to continue many of GWB's policies with some modifications, some of the time.
All past bets are off as far as I can see. If Obama can get in with all his baggage...well...something has definately changed.
And this fail-up is exactly the same fail-up as we've been hearing from the liberal brain-trusts who've been saying the GOP is dead. Obama can dumped by a much larger margin than he was brought in, and Congress can change hands in 2010. All it takes is for unemployment to continue through next year, and for 2012 to see the US losing in the middle-east (or another big terrorist hit). If you're old enough to remember 1976 and the supposed demise of the GOP, you're old enough to remember what happened just four years later.
|
dwsstlouis
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 13th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 700 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Nov 5th, 2009 05:59 pm |
|
tom_in_sac wrote: dwsstlouis wrote: Do you believe Obama is more fit than Palin?
First fail-ups in logic: false dichotomy, and an attempt to pose an improper question. Those were not the choices we had. And, for the record, we don't actually know enough about how Obama will govern to say anything meaningful, at least not yet. We do know that instead of governing, Palin chose to resign, for whatever reasons you want to believe.
But while the GOP was being..."valid" in their selection process, the other side easily put up a far left socialist rock star.
Next fail-ups: mistaking correlation for causation, an outright falsehood and affirming the unknown. There were many factors involved in Obama's election, and you so far demonstrate no ability to quantify the weight of any one factor, or even properly list them. And the election was not "easy", Obama won with only 53% of the vote, where McCain got 46% and a third party got 3%, which lays bare your falsehood. Finally, Obama has not yet proven himself to be the Bolshevik we fear. Indeed, he's not done much of anything other than to continue many of GWB's policies with some modifications, some of the time.
All past bets are off as far as I can see. If Obama can get in with all his baggage...well...something has definately changed.
And this fail-up is exactly the same fail-up as we've been hearing from the liberal brain-trusts who've been saying the GOP is dead. Obama can dumped by a much larger margin than he was brought in, and Congress can change hands in 2010. All it takes is for unemployment to continue through next year, and for 2012 to see the US losing in the middle-east (or another big terrorist hit). If you're old enough to remember 1976 and the supposed demise of the GOP, you're old enough to remember what happened just four years later.
Yeah...yeah...yeah. Logic aside, by some strange twist of fate, pretend I have a gun to your head, fairy tale theater etc.
Who would you pick?
Applying logic is not an option here nor was it ever intended to be logical question for the very reason you mentioned - it simply can't happen. Unless, of course, Palin, if for no other reason than being a woman scorned; decided to tell the GOP either put me up or I'm running as an Indy and I have enough support to kill your chances. Unless you can see the future, you have nothing but your own logic and reason to find this a rediculous notion. But that is not enough to say it can't happen with any amount of certainty at this point.
Who would you pick based on what we know at this very moment?
Please excuse and ignore my unintended falsehoods and address the spirit of the statement if you wish...Again considering all that Obama had hanging around his neck, he did in fact and in my view, very easily win. A GOP candidate would have never have come close with comparable issues.
I am that old, I understand your point and hope a similar fate will be had.
But I have serious reservations re: the lukewarm GOP response to all that is before them. Enough so that I am considering rallying behind an indy and saying the hell with the GOP unless they get busy. If they continue to be day old coffee, the damage will not be as great in 2010, if at all.
If you are smart enough to pick apart my post employing rules of logic (correctly so, by the way); then you are smart enough to grasp what I was attempting to convey.
Answer the question. Or don't.
|
tom_in_sac
Member
| Joined: | Wed Nov 7th, 2007 |
| Location: | Sacramento, CA |
| Posts: | 2027 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Nov 5th, 2009 06:11 pm |
|
Who would you pick?
I'd pick Palin (over Obama), and afterward I would not ever dare claim it was a logical choice. And, in essence, that was my vote last November, as I voted for McCain.
And you do have a point in highlighting the emotional nature (as opposed to logical) of politics and political campaigns. But that point also tends to make a focus on Palin a bad idea for conservatives. After all, you want to win, right?
It makes no sense to have "perfect ideological purity" be the enemy of "reasonably conservative"; if the choice is between starvation and "half a loaf", I think the choice is clear. That's why the focus on Palin is pure self-destruction, as far as I can tell.
|
dwsstlouis
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 13th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 700 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Nov 5th, 2009 09:45 pm |
|
tom_in_sac wrote: Who would you pick?
I'd pick Palin (over Obama), and afterward I would not ever dare claim it was a logical choice. And, in essence, that was my vote last November, as I voted for McCain.
And you do have a point in highlighting the emotional nature (as opposed to logical) of politics and political campaigns. But that point also tends to make a focus on Palin a bad idea for conservatives. After all, you want to win, right?
It makes no sense to have "perfect ideological purity" be the enemy of "reasonably conservative"; if the choice is between starvation and "half a loaf", I think the choice is clear. That's why the focus on Palin is pure self-destruction, as far as I can tell.
Very well.
Yes - people have a tendency to be anything but logical. Not if winning brings me more of the same, ultimately. I want the country to win, and if blue dogs suddenly consumed the democratic party and went on a fiscal responsibility tear I might consider being a democrat again.
Understood...fair enough. However, I don't believe "perfect ideological purity" even belongs in connection to anything I've posted. I'm a pretty mongrel republican. The far right would and does take exception to many of my stands. But I believe I follow you in the general...
|
tom_in_sac
Member
| Joined: | Wed Nov 7th, 2007 |
| Location: | Sacramento, CA |
| Posts: | 2027 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Nov 5th, 2009 10:40 pm |
|
dwsstlouis wrote: The far right would and does take exception to many of my stands.
I've seen that, and I don't regard you as any purist.
In all honesty, the reason my posts on the subject of Palin and ideological purity have the bite they do is that this phenomenon of outsiders insinuating themselves into each and every district to purge the moderates is so destructive and so threatening. The last thing we need right now is a bunch of rampaging Bible-thumping ideologues ripping up the party and the perception of conservatism from within. If anything, the GOP should partner with the Libertarians and the Blue Dogs for the sake of maintaining our nation as a sovereign (i.e., not internationalist) free market economy.
|
Thoughtless
Member
|
Posted: Thu Nov 5th, 2009 11:04 pm |
|
tom_in_sac wrote: dwsstlouis wrote: The far right would and does take exception to many of my stands.
I've seen that, and I don't regard you as any purist.
In all honesty, the reason my posts on the subject of Palin and ideological purity have the bite they do is that this phenomenon of outsiders insinuating themselves into each and every district to purge the moderates is so destructive and so threatening. The last thing we need right now is a bunch of rampaging Bible-thumping ideologues ripping up the party and the perception of conservatism from within. If anything, the GOP should partner with the Libertarians and the Blue Dogs for the sake of maintaining our nation as a sovereign (i.e., not internationalist) free market economy.
That's the way I feel about all of this. To me, conservatism is about empowering the individual, then the local level, then state, then federal.
I don't like this idea of the party being run at the national level by a bunch of unelected D-Jays and publicity hounds.
|
Current time is 07:25 am | Page:   1 2 3 4 5 6   |
|
|
|
|
