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bling
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Posted: Wed Oct 28th, 2009 06:02 pm |
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Is doing all we can for one person without hurting the things we must and should be doing for ourselves and others, enough? What if that person does not get physically better? And why are they not getting physically better?
Do good true Christians need some people to be physically needy? Does the potential believer need needy people? Does the hardened sinner that will not change need needy people? Are we all needy and is there an advantage to being physically obviously needy?
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Mephibosheth
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Posted: Thu Oct 29th, 2009 12:21 am |
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| the answer to the title is unbelief...
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Mephibosheth
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Posted: Thu Oct 29th, 2009 12:26 am |
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bling wrote:
Is doing all we can for one person without hurting the things we must and should be doing for ourselves and others, enough? What if that person does not get physically better? And why are they not getting physically better?
Do good true Christians need some people to be physically needy? Does the potential believer need needy people? Does the hardened sinner that will not change need needy people? Are we all needy and is there an advantage to being physically obviously needy?
we need needy people to hold us back...to slow us down..to stop us from unrestrained persuits ...if there were no needy people our greed and lusts would create them...
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notself
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Posted: Thu Oct 29th, 2009 02:46 am |
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Mephibosheth wrote: bling wrote:
Is doing all we can for one person without hurting the things we must and should be doing for ourselves and others, enough? What if that person does not get physically better? And why are they not getting physically better?
Do good true Christians need some people to be physically needy? Does the potential believer need needy people? Does the hardened sinner that will not change need needy people? Are we all needy and is there an advantage to being physically obviously needy?
we need needy people to hold us back...to slow us down..to stop us from unrestrained persuits ...if there were no needy people our greed and lusts would create them...
It is so nice that the poor provide you with some restraint. Evidently self discipline isn't working. 
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AMLSurvivor
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Posted: Thu Oct 29th, 2009 03:33 am |
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Mephibosheth wrote: the answer to the title is unbelief...
I tend to agree with Mephi in this much of his answer. Jesus said, "With the faith of a mustard seed, you can tell mountains to move and they'll move." - Paraphrased. Was Jesus literally saying that if I have that much faith I can command mountains to jump around? I tend to think Jesus was speaking less literal. I believe Jesus was saying things that seem impossible are possible when God is added into the equation. This has been my experience in life.
As to the needy questions...we are all needy...yes...even Bill Gates. God knows our needs and provides to the faithful.
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parlance_hacker
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Posted: Thu Oct 29th, 2009 06:25 am |
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Two observations:
On the title question, I would like to check its underlying assumption. It presumes that God is healing fewer people today (or perhaps a smaller percentage) than God used to (perhaps in biblical times). I am not sure this is true. While miraculous healings certainly aren't anywhere near the norm today, I don't believe they were back in Bible days either--except when people had a face-to-face encounter with Jesus (and to a lesser degree, the apostles). They seem fairly frequent due to the writing style used in the New Testament narrative material--where one important event is narrated immediately after another, even though a lot of time may have passed in between the two. But in reality, miraculous healings were very rare and special events in the First Century, just as they are today. We could also discuss the incredible increase in healings that are undoubtedly occurring through advancing in knowledge and technology. I am still willing to give God credit for every bit of good that comes through these advances. I might venture to say that God is possibly healing more people, and even a higher percentage of people, than He was in biblical times.
On the matter of neediness, I think it is important to consider what God causes versus what God uses. I do not think that God causes others to be needy, broken, dispairing, etc., for my development. However, God may certainly use a bad thing (i.e. undue suffering--not caused by or endorsed by God) to evoke a good thing (i.e. the compassionate response of others).
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AMLSurvivor
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Posted: Thu Oct 29th, 2009 11:09 am |
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parlance_hacker wrote: Two observations:
On the title question, I would like to check its underlying assumption. It presumes that God is healing fewer people today (or perhaps a smaller percentage) than God used to (perhaps in biblical times). I am not sure this is true. While miraculous healings certainly aren't anywhere near the norm today, I don't believe they were back in Bible days either--except when people had a face-to-face encounter with Jesus (and to a lesser degree, the apostles). They seem fairly frequent due to the writing style used in the New Testament narrative material--where one important event is narrated immediately after another, even though a lot of time may have passed in between the two. But in reality, miraculous healings were very rare and special events in the First Century, just as they are today. We could also discuss the incredible increase in healings that are undoubtedly occurring through advancing in knowledge and technology. I am still willing to give God credit for every bit of good that comes through these advances. I might venture to say that God is possibly healing more people, and even a higher percentage of people, than He was in biblical times.
On the matter of neediness, I think it is important to consider what God causes versus what God uses. I do not think that God causes others to be needy, broken, dispairing, etc., for my development. However, God may certainly use a bad thing (i.e. undue suffering--not caused by or endorsed by God) to evoke a good thing (i.e. the compassionate response of others).
A very good observation and I felt the same way. I don't presume God is healing less today; I presume less are seeking God's healing. God still does miracles! He does miracles according to His will. In every case, Jesus gave glory to the Father for any miracle, and I don't anticipate God's will except what the bible says but I do anticipate good in the believer's life. So I try to live in hope that regardless of whether something seems good to me or not. It is good because it is God's will and God is ultimately in control. We don't earn a miracle or bargain for one.
God has purpose and all things work together according to God's purpose. My suffering won't save anyone in the spiritual sense, but my example in suffering might give another hope. So if I must suffer, then God has a purpose in it. I agree with your observations what God causes versus what God uses.
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bling
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Posted: Thu Oct 29th, 2009 05:31 pm |
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In the story of the “Rich man and Lazarus”, did Lazarus fulfill a purpose by remaining unhealed in front of the rich man’s gate?
Would my lack of faith kept me from healing Paul of his inflection?
Can a physically crippled person be more effective in the Kingdom than a person without physical limitations?
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Mephibosheth
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Posted: Thu Oct 29th, 2009 05:38 pm |
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MEPHIBOSHETH WROTE;
Jesus said in Matthew 26:11 the poor you have always with you...Nice of him to include them..in fact gospel in the bible says, God has chosen their kind in that it states , God has chosen the base the foolish the weak the thing of nought, which is basicly all of the characteristics of the poor...
NOTSELF WROTE
It is so nice that the poor provide you with some restraint. Evidently self discipline isn't working.
SORRY MY POST APPEARS ABOVE YOUR IN THIS POST HERE..
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Realitycheck
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Posted: Thu Oct 29th, 2009 11:21 pm |
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The answer is unequivical; there is no healing because there is no god...any healing which is done is done by man...either through the agency of medical science or through one's own strength or a combination of the two. I know a woman who is no more religious than am I, yet she has, through her own abilities, her own amazing strength beaten a very rare form of cancer 13 times! 3 times she was in hospice and walked out having cured herself. There is nothing mystical, no god intervening, just a remarkable woman who knows herself and cures herself. To ascribe any other reasons for her cures is both unrealistic and childish.
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AMLSurvivor
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Posted: Fri Oct 30th, 2009 02:36 am |
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Realitycheck wrote: The answer is unequivical; there is no healing because there is no god...any healing which is done is done by man...either through the agency of medical science or through one's own strength or a combination of the two. I know a woman who is no more religious than am I, yet she has, through her own abilities, her own amazing strength beaten a very rare form of cancer 13 times! 3 times she was in hospice and walked out having cured herself. There is nothing mystical, no god intervening, just a remarkable woman who knows herself and cures herself. To ascribe any other reasons for her cures is both unrealistic and childish.
I beg to differ from personal experience. The account is posted multiple times in this forum, if you want to read it, search it out. It is not rhetoric of a plastic Jesus. It is the account of God who saved me from certain death when doctors already had me dead and buried.
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Realitycheck
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Posted: Fri Oct 30th, 2009 03:25 am |
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Again, you give credit to a mythological being, when in fact it was you, who healed yourself, regardless of what you believe.
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Mephibosheth
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Posted: Fri Oct 30th, 2009 04:21 am |
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Realitycheck wrote:
Again, you give credit to a mythological being, when in fact it was you, who healed yourself, regardless of what you believe.
and he should listen to you???????????
you have no credibility at all.....
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The rev
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Posted: Fri Oct 30th, 2009 06:22 am |
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There are people out there who's doctors gave them 16 months to live, and by some miracle, lost all trace of whatever cancer they had. After a situation like that, most of those that received that miracle, become more 'christ-like' in there view points and actions. They cherish life more and also are more willing to help others. Seems to me God did his job.
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AMLSurvivor
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Posted: Fri Oct 30th, 2009 11:39 am |
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Realitycheck wrote: Again, you give credit to a mythological being, when in fact it was you, who healed yourself, regardless of what you believe.
I understand the power of positive thinking in a medical situation and the psychological effect that can help the healing process. This is the only credible piece in your response. I guess my psyche created the rare Y-chromosome that was exactly the opposite of the leukemia which in turn helped to stomp out the mutated gene? But wait, it had to have created it 48+ years ago because I was born with it. I had great doctors...no doubt...but one can not assert they were great doctors just part of the time. True, generally doctors do look to religious belief as an aid to healing. When they see things beyond their ability to control, even a great doctor knows it.
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Danokan
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Posted: Fri Oct 30th, 2009 02:02 pm |
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1963
6 months old
I came down with spinal meningitis
Went into a coma
Doctors told my parents prepare for death.
Instead
They went and prayed.
Thanks be to GOD I am here today.
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Danokan
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Posted: Fri Oct 30th, 2009 02:05 pm |
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Realitycheck wrote: because there is no god...
I do realize this is futile but to make an absolute statement "THERE IS NO GOD" is completely illogical.
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sophion
Member
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Posted: Fri Oct 30th, 2009 02:55 pm |
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Danokan wrote: 1963
6 months old
I came down with spinal meningitis
Went into a coma
Doctors told my parents prepare for death.
Instead
They went and prayed.
Thanks be to GOD I am here today.
The Human body works in mysterious ways. 
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Realitycheck
Member
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Posted: Fri Oct 30th, 2009 08:03 pm |
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Danokan wrote: Realitycheck wrote: because there is no god...
I do realize this is futile but to make an absolute statement "THERE IS NO GOD" is completely illogical.
Not at all illogical as there is absolutely no reason to believe there is a god except belief/faith. It is completely illogical, unreasonable and contra-intellectual to claim there is a god. Despite DC2's desperate, desperate and deceiving attempts to the contrary, one need not prove a negative, but one must prove a positive statement.
Show me your god. Put in my hand something which proves the myth is not a Neanderthalian nightmare conjured up to explain thunder and lightening or bad luck and perpetuated through the centuries by grasping, greedy, power hungry people determined to have others do their bidding.
Last edited on Fri Oct 30th, 2009 08:03 pm by Realitycheck
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Danokan
Member
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Posted: Fri Oct 30th, 2009 08:09 pm |
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sophion wrote: Danokan wrote: 1963
6 months old
I came down with spinal meningitis
Went into a coma
Doctors told my parents prepare for death.
Instead
They went and prayed.
Thanks be to GOD I am here today.
The Human body works in mysterious ways.
Let's see.
I go into a coma and begin the death curl.
My parents go pray.
Next morning I am up and playing in the crib.
Hmmmm...
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