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Joe Steel
Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 02:50 pm |
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PATruth wrote:
Joe Steel wrote: My climate hasn't changed, has yours?
That's about the dimmest reason I've ever seen for opposing cap and trade. Unfortunately, I think it's quite common among wingnuts. If something can't be explained in high school drop-out terms, it's beyond them.
So your climate hasn't changed? Thought so. Nothing more than another liberal scheme to steal what doesn't belong to them to use for something that won't benefit anyone. To libs it's job security, to working families it's a hoax and a scam.
Go away thief, we don't want any.
No one, not even the most strident opponent of cap and trade, can deny global warming. The data are clear; average temperatures are rising. Your climate has changed. You just can't see the difference. That doesn't mean the change doesn't affect you. It just means you haven't noticed it and you don't understand the implications.
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Joe Steel
Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 02:55 pm |
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loxy3 wrote:
Joe Steel wrote: Emissions trading is a free-market solution to the pollution problem. It creates incentives to clean-up emissions released into the atmosphere. While some companies may face higher costs, others will make money selling their carbon credits. This a capitalist's dream. They can make an investment in clean air and then sell it.
its a democratic legislator free-market solution to line their pockets. That is all it is.
Go research your top dems and see where their investing is. And at the high cost of everyone else.
Nonsense. The idea has implemented in Europe and has been promoted from both sides of the American ideological divide.
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PATruth
Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 03:43 pm |
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Joe Steel wrote: loxy3 wrote:
Joe Steel wrote: Emissions trading is a free-market solution to the pollution problem. It creates incentives to clean-up emissions released into the atmosphere. While some companies may face higher costs, others will make money selling their carbon credits. This a capitalist's dream. They can make an investment in clean air and then sell it.
its a democratic legislator free-market solution to line their pockets. That is all it is.
Go research your top dems and see where their investing is. And at the high cost of everyone else.
Nonsense. The idea has implemented in Europe and has been promoted from both sides of the American ideological divide.
Let's ask the American people, "has your climate changed" Do you want to spend a couple thousand dollars a year in higher energy costs to fix the climate change that NO ONE is feeling?
I know what working families are going to say.
I hope the dems go all out on this one. I do however hope they take their time and let this drag out right before the 2010 elections. They will all be unemployed.
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wilmywood8455
Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 06:28 pm |
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loxy3 wrote:
its a democratic legislator free-market solution to line their pockets. That is all it is.
Go research your top dems and see where their investing is. And at the high cost of everyone else.
And if their investing wasn't there, they'd be called hypocrites.
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wilmywood8455
Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 06:30 pm |
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PATruth wrote: Do you want to spend a couple thousand dollars a year in higher energy costs to fix the climate change that NO ONE is feeling?
No, but I'll spend it to keep the polar ice caps and glaciers from melting further, and to help get is started on the road to energy independence, with something besides the Palinistas' 'drill, baby, drill'.
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PATruth
Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 06:47 pm |
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wilmywood8455 wrote: PATruth wrote: Do you want to spend a couple thousand dollars a year in higher energy costs to fix the climate change that NO ONE is feeling?
No, but I'll spend it to keep the polar ice caps and glaciers from melting further, and to help get is started on the road to energy independence, with something besides the Palinistas' 'drill, baby, drill'.
So the left will guarantee the American people if this tax is implemented the polar ice caps and glaciers will be saved?
Let's let the American people decide in 2010, a couple thousand a year in utility bills or a vague promise about saving the ice caps.
Here's the reality Mr Wood, the CO2 levels are going to continue to rise for at least the next 50 years. If that's killing the planet then enjoy you final years because there is NOTHING that is going to stop it. Methinks this will all pass, just like the global cooling scare 30 years ago.
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loxy3
Member
| Joined: | Wed Jun 21st, 2006 |
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| Posts: | 3043 |
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Offline
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 06:53 pm |
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wilmywood8455 wrote: loxy3 wrote:
its a democratic legislator free-market solution to line their pockets. That is all it is.
Go research your top dems and see where their investing is. And at the high cost of everyone else.
And if their investing wasn't there, they'd be called hypocrites.
you are telling me the people would have a problem with our legislators not investing ? Please. That is what has gotten us into the problems we face today. They are all looking out for their pockets. The could care less about ours. Completely and totally,
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noetsi
Member
| Joined: | Sun Sep 14th, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 10178 |
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 06:59 pm |
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| Unfortunately I think nothing can be done to address climate change until there is a catastrophee. People simply dont believe there is a problem, and until its obvious there is nothing will be done.
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Coverpoint
Member
| Joined: | Thu Jun 25th, 2009 |
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| Posts: | 585 |
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 07:04 pm |
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Republicans once again have lost their environmental voice by relinquishing their "energy independence" platform to the flat-earth "global warming is a scam" branch of their party.
What could have been a political asset to the party (energy independence) has withered. Because most Republicans have now opted out of the environmental discussion, America's energy independence will suffer due to lack of voice.
This is how the current "Just Say No" Republican strategy hurts not only the Republicans but also America.
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cwa1991
Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 07:39 pm |
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I couldn't help but wonder if one of the reasons for the Dems losing in Virginia would be their eco-freak faction's high-profile opposition to coal-mining.
If you're going to champion a cause that will put Virginia coal-miners out of work & Virginia coal companies out of production, then you would just re-inforce a belief that the Democratic Party really doesn't care about losing blue-collar voters - when their industry isn't "In" with the Left anymore.
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wilmywood8455
Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 10:17 pm |
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cwa1991 wrote:
I couldn't help but wonder if one of the reasons for the Dems losing in Virginia would be their eco-freak faction's high-profile opposition to coal-mining.
If you're going to champion a cause that will put Virginia coal-miners out of work & Virginia coal companies out of production, then you would just re-inforce a belief that the Democratic Party really doesn't care about losing blue-collar voters - when their industry isn't "In" with the Left anymore.
Virginia is a minor coal mining state, accounting for 2-3% of US production in 2008 (less than 25,000 tons).
Perhaps you mean West Virginia?
Coal had nothing to do with the Va governor's race.
But, thanks for playing.
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Joe Steel
Member
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Posted: Sun Nov 8th, 2009 11:59 am |
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PATruth wrote:
Joe Steel wrote: Nonsense. The idea has implemented in Europe and has been promoted from both sides of the American ideological divide.
Let's ask the American people, "has your climate changed" Do you want to spend a couple thousand dollars a year in higher energy costs to fix the climate change that NO ONE is feeling?
I know what working families are going to say.
I hope the dems go all out on this one. I do however hope they take their time and let this drag out right before the 2010 elections. They will all be unemployed.
You keeping referring to the cost of cap and trade. I don't recall the numbers I've seen being anywhere near as large as what you've mentioned. Can you identify the basis for your comments? Do they include the benefits of controlling global warming. For instance, if our efforts could result in reclaiming some food-growing region or preventing it from becoming unusable and the cost of food could be controlled or reduced, would your numbers reflect it?
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Joe Steel
Member
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Posted: Sun Nov 8th, 2009 12:06 pm |
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wilmywood8455 wrote:
PATruth wrote: Do you want to spend a couple thousand dollars a year in higher energy costs to fix the climate change that NO ONE is feeling?
No, but I'll spend it to keep the polar ice caps and glaciers from melting further, and to help get is started on the road to energy independence, with something besides the Palinistas' 'drill, baby, drill'.
Exactly. Sometimes we have to do things we don't want to do because the alternative to not doing them is worse.
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George Aligator
Member
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Posted: Sun Nov 8th, 2009 12:32 pm |
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PATruth wrote: ... Let's ask the American people, "has your climate changed" Do you want to spend a couple thousand dollars a year in higher energy costs to fix the climate change that NO ONE is feeling? ...
Here is that heady blend of wild exaggeration ("a couple of thousand dollars a year in higher energy costs") and junk science ("climate change that NO ONE is feeling") that makes the fulminations of the right wingnuts the comic relief of our political dialogue.
There is no point in disputing either of these fantastic assertions; discussing them is what the enviro-trolls want and all they can hope for.
As the Decider once sagely observed, the jury is still out on evolution.
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ATTAburnsinHELL
Member
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Posted: Sun Nov 8th, 2009 12:44 pm |
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Back in the 70s there was great resistence to cleaning up US industry pollution, statists crying that the costs would make the US less competitive
Instead the opposite happened. US industry became more efficient and competitive with japan and germany, who already had modernized their industry
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lightoftruth
Member/DJ
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Posted: Sun Nov 8th, 2009 01:07 pm |
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Pigasus wrote: Industry doesn't want to pay for it's own pollution, so it figures the taxpayers can be fooled into paying for it.
Maybe not the Dems, but for sure the naive and easily propagandized Republicans will believe industry's slick Madison Avenue baloney every time.
Republicans are for tax supported (socialized) capitalism.
Who bailed out madison AVE. / Wall Street???????? Last edited on Sun Nov 8th, 2009 01:07 pm by lightoftruth
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PATruth
Member
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Posted: Sun Nov 8th, 2009 01:41 pm |
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George Aligator wrote: PATruth wrote: ... Let's ask the American people, "has your climate changed" Do you want to spend a couple thousand dollars a year in higher energy costs to fix the climate change that NO ONE is feeling? ...
Here is that heady blend of wild exaggeration ("a couple of thousand dollars a year in higher energy costs") and junk science ("climate change that NO ONE is feeling") that makes the fulminations of the right wingnuts the comic relief of our political dialogue.
There is no point in disputing either of these fantastic assertions; discussing them is what the enviro-trolls want and all they can hope for.
As the Decider once sagely observed, the jury is still out on evolution.
So your climate has changed? If you get a chance or more unlikely if you know a man that works hard for his $15.00/hour if he thinks we need an energy tax to "save the planet". Go ahead, just ask him if he's willing to double his utility bills to make AlGore even richer.
As usual the arrogant detached liberal has no clue what the middle class think or care how their absurd agenda effects the middle class orthe poor. After he pays for Obama's healthcare "fees" he won't have any money left anyway for Cap & Tax.
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George Aligator
Member
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Posted: Sun Nov 8th, 2009 08:55 pm |
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PATruth wrote: George Aligator wrote: PATruth wrote: ... Let's ask the American people, "has your climate changed" Do you want to spend a couple thousand dollars a year in higher energy costs to fix the climate change that NO ONE is feeling? ...
Here is that heady blend of wild exaggeration ("a couple of thousand dollars a year in higher energy costs") and junk science ("climate change that NO ONE is feeling") that makes the fulminations of the right wingnuts the comic relief of our political dialogue.
There is no point in disputing either of these fantastic assertions; discussing them is what the enviro-trolls want and all they can hope for.
As the Decider once sagely observed, the jury is still out on evolution.
So your climate has changed? If you get a chance or more unlikely if you know a man that works hard for his $15.00/hour if he thinks we need an energy tax to "save the planet". Go ahead, just ask him if he's willing to double his utility bills to make AlGore even richer.
As usual the arrogant detached liberal has no clue what the middle class think or care how their absurd agenda effects the middle class orthe poor. After he pays for Obama's healthcare "fees" he won't have any money left anyway for Cap & Tax.
Bravo for another non-rebuttal! The doubling of utility bills is a figment of talk radio and the laughably inept attempt at class analysis ($15/hr hardly puts one in the middle class) suggests a desperation driven by lack of supporting evidence. A very disappointing response, Old Top; surely your sources at newsmax.org have better talking points that this.
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cygonaut
Member
| Joined: | Fri Mar 4th, 2005 |
| Location: | New York USA |
| Posts: | 34645 |
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Online
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Posted: Tue Nov 10th, 2009 02:55 pm |
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I want the CO2 crap out of our air pronto
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Pigasus
Member
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Posted: Tue Nov 10th, 2009 07:35 pm |
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lightoftruth wrote: Pigasus wrote: Industry doesn't want to pay for it's own pollution, so it figures the taxpayers can be fooled into paying for it.
Maybe not the Dems, but for sure the naive and easily propagandized Republicans will believe industry's slick Madison Avenue baloney every time.
Republicans are for tax supported (socialized) capitalism.
Who bailed out madison AVE. / Wall Street????????
I know you like to pretend otherwise, but it began with the Republican President Blinky (necessitated by Republican policies) and continues under the Obama administration.
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