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TR1985
Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 02:55 pm |
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European Snob wrote: TR1985 wrote: Once that point has passed. . . . then you will be a nation.
I doubt we'll ever be anything that even remotely resembles nations like the French or the Danes. We might eventually (hundreds of years to the future) become something like modern day Switzerland is. Maybe.
No. Your nation status would be more similar to the western hemisphere . . . .
Perhaps Brazil?
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European Snob
Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 02:57 pm |
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TR1985 wrote: I've never really thought about it. However, the two issues are not the same. I do in fact support nuclear weapon and environmental regulation. Not everything is the same.
The issues are difinitely not identical, but the principle of national sovereignty is present in both.
That said, the Italians have voluntarily agreed to pool sovereignty, just like all other meembers of the convention. Cuba did nothing of the sort.
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zonnebloem
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 02:59 pm |
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European Snob schreef:
zonnebloem wrote: andytown schreef:
Hi Zonne--if we Irish want you Dutch to neb in--we'll give you a call
so--End of discussion.
We Dutch don't need anyones permission to express our opinion.
And thank god for that! (pun intended)
As a matter of fact I do belief in God. I do find it highly inappropriate for a public school to force religion on it's pupils. I find it therefore logical that this principle is part of European treaties.
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TR1985
Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 03:00 pm |
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European Snob wrote: TR1985 wrote: I've never really thought about it. However, the two issues are not the same. I do in fact support nuclear weapon and environmental regulation. Not everything is the same.
The issues are difinitely not identical, but the principle of national sovereignty is present in both.
That said, the Italians have voluntarily agreed to pool sovereignty, just like all other meembers of the convention. Cuba did nothing of the sort.
Cuba has signed the NPFT.
I agree to pooling sovereignty to solve external problems, this is true. However, the status of crucifixes in Italy is an internal problem, and it is foolish to allow an external organization decide that for you.
The environment, nuclear weapons, and international criminals effect everyone. What you put in your schools isn't anyone's business.
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TR1985
Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 03:00 pm |
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zonnebloem wrote: European Snob schreef:
zonnebloem wrote: andytown schreef:
Hi Zonne--if we Irish want you Dutch to neb in--we'll give you a call
so--End of discussion.
We Dutch don't need anyones permission to express our opinion.
And thank god for that! (pun intended)
As a matter of fact I do belief in God. I do find it highly inappropriate for a public school to force religion on it's pupils. I find it therefore logical that this principle is part of European treaties. It's illogical for a Dutch public school.
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zonnebloem
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 03:03 pm |
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And remember, if I'm not mistaken there are also Catholics schools in Italy, besides public schools. I really don't understand what the fuss is all about.
It's all about choice and respecting each others choices. If I would choose to send my child to a public school, I'd expect neutrality on religious issues.
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Slaol_121
Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 03:03 pm |
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TR1985 wrote:
I agree to pooling sovereignty to solve external problems, this is true. However, the status of crucifixes in Italy is an internal problem, and it is foolish to allow an external organization decide that for you.
I agree. There is no need for the European Court to rule on this matter.
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TR1985
Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 03:04 pm |
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zonnebloem wrote: And remember, if I'm not mistaken there are also Catholics schools in Italy, besides public schools. I really don't understand what the fuss is all about.
It's all about choice and respecting each others choices. If I would choose to send my child to a public school, I'd expect neutrality on religious issues. And in Holland, you will get neutrality on religious issues. Who are the Dutch to impose this on Italy?
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zonnebloem
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 03:04 pm |
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TR1985 schreef:
zonnebloem wrote: European Snob schreef:
zonnebloem wrote: andytown schreef:
Hi Zonne--if we Irish want you Dutch to neb in--we'll give you a call
so--End of discussion.
We Dutch don't need anyones permission to express our opinion.
And thank god for that! (pun intended)
As a matter of fact I do belief in God. I do find it highly inappropriate for a public school to force religion on it's pupils. I find it therefore logical that this principle is part of European treaties. It's illogical for a Dutch public school.
And for Italian public schools, as Italians the fall under the same treaties in this regard as the Dutch do.
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TR1985
Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 03:05 pm |
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zonnebloem wrote: TR1985 schreef:
zonnebloem wrote: European Snob schreef:
zonnebloem wrote: andytown schreef:
Hi Zonne--if we Irish want you Dutch to neb in--we'll give you a call
so--End of discussion.
We Dutch don't need anyones permission to express our opinion.
And thank god for that! (pun intended)
As a matter of fact I do belief in God. I do find it highly inappropriate for a public school to force religion on it's pupils. I find it therefore logical that this principle is part of European treaties. It's illogical for a Dutch public school.
And for Italian public schools, as Italians the fall under the same treaties in this regard as the Dutch do. When the treaty was being ratified, did the Italians assume that their crucifixes would be taken out of their schools. And if so, why it it now forty years after the fact that the court decides to fine them?
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Voted4Reagan
Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 03:07 pm |
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andytown wrote: Hi Zonne--if we Irish want you Dutch to neb in--we'll give you a call
so--End of discussion.
Zonne...Feel free to put in your 2cents (or guilders) Andy is in a mood today.. lol
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zonnebloem
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 03:09 pm |
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TR1985 schreef:
zonnebloem wrote: And remember, if I'm not mistaken there are also Catholics schools in Italy, besides public schools. I really don't understand what the fuss is all about.
It's all about choice and respecting each others choices. If I would choose to send my child to a public school, I'd expect neutrality on religious issues. And in Holland, you will get neutrality on religious issues. Who are the Dutch to impose this on Italy?
A deal is a deal, even if you're an Italian (although I do understand that for Italians the concept to keep your promises is a rather foreign one).
The point is that we want mobility of labour. EU nationals can also live and work in other EU nations than their native one. To facilitate this there are treaties which set the basics.
This is one of those basics.
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zonnebloem
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 03:12 pm |
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Voted4Reagan schreef:
andytown wrote: Hi Zonne--if we Irish want you Dutch to neb in--we'll give you a call
so--End of discussion.
Zonne...Feel free to put in your 2cents (or guilders) Andy is in a mood today.. lol
That would be a lot of inflation (the old Dutch Guilder had 100 cents or 20 nickels or ten dimes or four quarters).
I have to confess I do miss the quarters. Why couldn't the Euro have any quarters?
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TR1985
Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 03:12 pm |
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zonnebloem wrote: TR1985 schreef:
zonnebloem wrote: And remember, if I'm not mistaken there are also Catholics schools in Italy, besides public schools. I really don't understand what the fuss is all about.
It's all about choice and respecting each others choices. If I would choose to send my child to a public school, I'd expect neutrality on religious issues. And in Holland, you will get neutrality on religious issues. Who are the Dutch to impose this on Italy?
A deal is a deal, even if you're an Italian (although I do understand that for Italians the concept to keep your promises is a rather foreign one).
The point is that we want mobility of labour. EU nationals can also live and work in other EU nations than their native one. To facilitate this there are treaties which set the basics.
This is one of those basics. Were the Italians under that impression when they signed the treaty that this would occur?
I'm sorry, but when you move to another country (or perhaps Italy is just a state?) the onus is on you to assimilate to its cultures and traditions.
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zonnebloem
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 03:15 pm |
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TR1985 schreef:
zonnebloem wrote: TR1985 schreef:
zonnebloem wrote: And remember, if I'm not mistaken there are also Catholics schools in Italy, besides public schools. I really don't understand what the fuss is all about.
It's all about choice and respecting each others choices. If I would choose to send my child to a public school, I'd expect neutrality on religious issues. And in Holland, you will get neutrality on religious issues. Who are the Dutch to impose this on Italy?
A deal is a deal, even if you're an Italian (although I do understand that for Italians the concept to keep your promises is a rather foreign one).
The point is that we want mobility of labour. EU nationals can also live and work in other EU nations than their native one. To facilitate this there are treaties which set the basics.
This is one of those basics. Were the Italians under that impression when they signed the treaty that this would occur?
Does that matter?
I'm sorry, but when you move to another country (or perhaps Italy is just a state?) the onus is on you to assimilate to its cultures and traditions.
Tradition is no excuse to violate treaties.
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Voted4Reagan
Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 03:15 pm |
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zonnebloem wrote: Voted4Reagan schreef:
andytown wrote: Hi Zonne--if we Irish want you Dutch to neb in--we'll give you a call
so--End of discussion.
Zonne...Feel free to put in your 2cents (or guilders) Andy is in a mood today.. lol
That would be a lot of inflation (the old Dutch Guilder had 100 cents or 20 nickels or ten dimes or four quarters).
I have to confess I do miss the quarters. Why couldn't the Euro have any quarters? umm... at the risk of a bad Pun.. or analogy...
Like OBAMA they just couldnt adapt to CHANGE... lol
couldnt resist
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European Snob
Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 03:15 pm |
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TR1985 wrote: Cuba has signed the NPFT.
The NPT was created in '68, six years after the missile crisis.
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TR1985
Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 03:22 pm |
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zonnebloem wrote:
Does that matter?
Yes. If they had known that is how the treaty would be interpreted, they may not have signed it.
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andytown
Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 03:25 pm |
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Zonne
As a matter of fact I do belief in God. I do find it highly inappropriate for a public school to force religion on it's pupils. I find it therefore logical that this principle is part of European treaties.---Good to hear you believe in God I'm sure he's delighted,as there is very few Dutch in heaven
Now just look at the rubbish you posted
I do find it highly inappropriate for a public school to force religion on it's pupils. I find it therefore logical that this principle is part of European treaties.
Hanging a crucifix on a wall is forcing religion on someone--how daft are you man dear ? There is no living creature on the cross although they should have stuck that Finnish moron on it!---for Chriss sake you Dutch grow up.
This is what life is all about
just listen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBIBGOTSI94
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zonnebloem
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 03:25 pm |
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TR1985 schreef:
zonnebloem wrote:
Does that matter?
Yes. If they had known that is how the treaty would be interpreted, they may not have signed it.
They might... The reality is that they've signed it, the rest is irrelevant.
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