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Mazel Schlimazel
Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 09:14 pm |
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George Aligator wrote: Imagine (and it will take some effort, I grant you) that the US military was deployed in the State of Israel propping up a wildly unpopular but pro-US Druze prime minister elected in rather shady circumstances.
A heterogeneous coalition of terrorists and insurgents, the Hagganah, the Stern Gang etc. are blowing up buildings used by the American occupiers and killing US troops with IEDs and sniper attacks.
What do you think would be the strains and conflicts on American Jews serving the military and scheduled for deployment to the Palestinian theater (formerly called Israel)?
Yes, while the shooter's murderous actions have absolutely no excuse (killing 12 People in cold blood is totally inexcusable and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent), there certainly is a reason behind what motivated the shooter to do what he did... There's no smoke without fire, as they say...
Last edited on Fri Nov 6th, 2009 09:14 pm by Mazel Schlimazel
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rdrummer322
Member
| Joined: | Wed Jun 29th, 2005 |
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| Posts: | 858 |
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 09:17 pm |
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This had a red flag written all over it. A Muslim being sent to a theater that is killing other Muslims with basically the same belief.
A simple question on a pre-deployment questionaire such as. "Do you support the ideas behind why we are in Afganistan?" would have solved the whole thing.
Nothing this guy did was right of course, or excusable. What pushed him over the edge of reason however was something that could have easily been avoided.
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Mazel Schlimazel
Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 09:19 pm |
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rdrummer322 wrote: This had a red flag written all over it. A Muslim being sent to a theater that is killing other Muslims with basically the same belief.
A simple question on a pre-deployment questionaire such as. "Do you support the ideas behind why we are in Afganistan?" would have solved the whole thing.
Nothing this guy did was right of course, or excusable. What pushed him over the edge of reason however was something that could have easily been avoided.
Indeed.. My thoughts on this matter are the same.
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dwsstlouis
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 13th, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 700 |
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 09:21 pm |
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Mazel Schlimazel wrote: While it's important to take the Shooter's motivations and his personal radical inclinations into account, collectively scapegoating America's mostly taxpaying, hard-working moderate muslims is just stupid..
I believe the OP stated muslim nutbags, which I took to mean extreme and dangerous groups that hide behind Islam. As opposed to the few/five peaceful muslim families with the lively attire who live in my neighborhood.
Muslim v. Muslim nutbags.
Christian v. Christian nutbags
Atheist v. Atheist nutbags
Agnostic v. Agnostic nutbags.
The shooters motivations are quite clear based on his internet postings and activities outside the base: " Kill the infidel. Intimidate the west into leaving the middle east so we can once again ruthlessly rule over various groups of people we feel to be inferior, including all women, live large on our regional resources while the masses starve and kill anyone who even dares to look funny at us."
Ya' know...muslim nutbags.
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Mazel Schlimazel
Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 09:23 pm |
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dwsstlouis wrote: Mazel Schlimazel wrote: While it's important to take the Shooter's motivations and his personal radical inclinations into account, collectively scapegoating America's mostly taxpaying, hard-working moderate muslims is just stupid..
I believe the OP stated muslim nutbags, which I took to mean extreme and dangerous groups that hide behind Islam. As opposed to the few/five peaceful muslim families with the lively attire who live in my neighborhood.
Muslim v. Muslim nutbags.
Christian v. Christian nutbags
Atheist v. Atheist nutbags
Agnostic v. Agnostic nutbags.
The shooters motivations are quite clear based on his internet postings and activities outside the base: " Kill the infidel. Intimidate the west into leaving the middle east so we can once again ruthlessly rule over various groups of people we feel to be inferior, including all women, live large on our regional resources while the masses starve and kill anyone who even dares to look funny at us."
Ya' know...muslim nutbags.
if that was what the OP was saying, that makes more sense, then...
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TR1985
Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 09:27 pm |
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dwsstlouis wrote: Mazel Schlimazel wrote: While it's important to take the Shooter's motivations and his personal radical inclinations into account, collectively scapegoating America's mostly taxpaying, hard-working moderate muslims is just stupid..
I believe the OP stated muslim nutbags, which I took to mean extreme and dangerous groups that hide behind Islam. As opposed to the few/five peaceful muslim families with the lively attire who live in my neighborhood.
Muslim v. Muslim nutbags.
Christian v. Christian nutbags
Atheist v. Atheist nutbags
Agnostic v. Agnostic nutbags.
The shooters motivations are quite clear based on his internet postings and activities outside the base: " Kill the infidel. Intimidate the west into leaving the middle east so we can once again ruthlessly rule over various groups of people we feel to be inferior, including all women, live large on our regional resources while the masses starve and kill anyone who even dares to look funny at us."
Ya' know...muslim nutbags.
We gain nothing by being there.
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Dr B
Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 09:43 pm |
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Heresy wrote: It should be noted that a much deadlier shooting spree in Killeen, back in 1991, was initiated by a white caucasian male of the christian faith.
Remember the dude who drove his pickup truck through the frontdoors of a Luby's, and killed 23 people?
Did he scream "Praise Jehovah!" during the attack?
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Dr B
Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 09:47 pm |
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One victim was 3 months pregnant
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/11/06/2009-11-06_one_of_13_victims_of_fort_hood_massacre_was_pregnant_soldier_francheska_velez.html
Nidal's former imam in Maryland is stunned
http://www.mysanantonio.com/military/69348607.html
Nidal preached than anyone who insults the koran should be beheaded
http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/87980/
Nidal attended the radical the Muslim Community Center in Silver Spring. The Washington Post investigated this mosque for their radical teachings.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/04/AR2006090401107_pf.html
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/199483.php
Another victim died.
http://www.news10.net/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=69941
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donkey32
Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 10:51 pm |
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Alias Emily 2 wrote: Once again the Religion Of Peace explodes in violence. They really need to take a look at why their religion tends toward so much violence.
I think we ALL need to look into why religion in general tends towards violence.
All of the descendants of the sons of Abraham in particular.
That's Jews, Muslims and Christians. Just look at the history of these 3 groups. In fact, to be perfectly honest, throughout history the Muslims and Jews have spent LESS of their time committing large scale violence than the Christians. Still, these three religions have been at the root of SO much bloodshed. None of them can really be called a "religion of peace".
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lightoftruth
Member/DJ
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 10:51 pm |
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Heresy wrote: It should be noted that a much deadlier shooting spree in Killeen, back in 1991, was initiated by a white caucasian male of the christian faith.
Remember the dude who drove his pickup truck through the frontdoors of a Luby's, and killed 23 people?
I'm sure it was, however this is about 2009, non caucasian, muslim.......got it? Good.......
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lightoftruth
Member/DJ
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 11:09 pm |
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donkey32 wrote: Alias Emily 2 wrote: Once again the Religion Of Peace explodes in violence. They really need to take a look at why their religion tends toward so much violence.
I think we ALL need to look into why religion in general tends towards violence.
All of the descendants of the sons of Abraham in particular.
That's Jews, Muslims and Christians. Just look at the history of these 3 groups. In fact, to be perfectly honest, throughout history the Muslims and Jews have spent LESS of their time committing large scale violence than the Christians. Still, these three religions have been at the root of SO much bloodshed. None of them can really be called a "religion of peace".
Violence due to done for religious causes a few thousand years ago, 500 years ago, is well known. However it is 99% limited to younger Radical Islamic males since Jimmy Carter...........Last edited on Fri Nov 6th, 2009 11:10 pm by lightoftruth
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Opinionated
Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 11:09 pm |
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A nut job went on a killing spree. This has happened before. This particular nut job was religious. Well, religious nut jobs are no strangers to killing sprees. In fact I'd wager that they're more prone to killing sprees than their secular counterparts, but that's just me. This particular religious nut job also happened to be Muslim. That just goes to show that no religion is completely free of nut jobs. In fact, religion in general may be more prone to attracting/creating nut jobs than secular belief systems. But then again, that's just me.
I see no reason to condemn all Muslims any more than I would see a reason to condemn all Christians, Jews, or Buddhists for that matter if the killer had been of those religions instead. There are lots of Muslims who are not nut jobs, just like there are lots of Christians, Jews, and so on, who aren't.
Until such time as someone invents a "Religious Nut Job Prone To Killing Sprees O'Meter", I see no way of sorting the nut jobs from the non-nut jobs until the nut job does something to reveal themselves. Once that happens, I believe that all nut jobs, regardless of their religious affiliation, should be dealt with accordingly.
Bottom line? Being a homicidal nut job is non-sectarian, non-partisan, and non-discriminatory. It crosses all religious, political, societal, gender, and ethnicity boundaries. Just because one particular group has a homicidal nut job as a member is no reason to hang them all.
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donkey32
Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 11:25 pm |
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lightoftruth wrote:Violence due to done for religious causes a few thousand years ago, 500 years ago, is well known. However it is 99% limited to younger Radical Islamic males since Jimmy Carter...........
Christian soldiers have NEVER left us.
Indians were being murdered by the thousands, by good Christians, right up to the 1920's right here in California.
Christian nuts go on killing sprees and commit murder right here often enough. And GOD only knows how many good Christian soldiers are over in Afghanistan right now killing towel heads for Christ.
Your president, the Chimp, is a good Christian, he mobilized our military to preemptively attack a country that had NOT attacked us first. In fact, THAT good Christian and his pals has to orchestrate a major disinformation campaign to essentially lie their way into that war. Many hundreds of thousands of INNOCENT people over there have died as a DIRECT result of this "good Christians" actions.
As to the young Islamic males running around with guns: If THIS country was the pivot point for every empire's campaign to own the energy resources and control the fate of the world, there would be a WHOLE LOT MORE young, radical Christian males running around with guns, singing "Onward Christian Soldiers" and shooting into the air.
Occupied people tend to eventually get a little miffed. Perhaps unreasonably, perhaps not.
Last edited on Fri Nov 6th, 2009 11:26 pm by donkey32
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donkey32
Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 11:38 pm |
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Huh.. I wonder if the dude who committed this multiple shooting was a church going guy.
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lightoftruth
Member/DJ
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 12:06 am |
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donkey32 wrote: lightoftruth wrote:Violence due to done for religious causes a few thousand years ago, 500 years ago, is well known. However it is 99% limited to younger Radical Islamic males since Jimmy Carter...........
Christian soldiers have NEVER left us.
Indians were being murdered by the thousands, by good Christians, right up to the 1920's right here in California.
Christian nuts go on killing sprees and commit murder right here often enough. And GOD only knows how many good Christian soldiers are over in Afghanistan right now killing towel heads for Christ.
Your president, the Chimp, is a good Christian, he mobilized our military to preemptively attack a country that had NOT attacked us first. In fact, THAT good Christian and his pals has to orchestrate a major disinformation campaign to essentially lie their way into that war. Many hundreds of thousands of INNOCENT people over there have died as a DIRECT result of this "good Christians" actions.
As to the young Islamic males running around with guns: If THIS country was the pivot point for every empire's campaign to own the energy resources and control the fate of the world, there would be a WHOLE LOT MORE young, radical Christian males running around with guns, singing "Onward Christian Soldiers" and shooting into the air.
Occupied people tend to eventually get a little miffed. Perhaps unreasonably, perhaps not.
There are many killings worldwide every month done IN THE NAME OF ISLAM, how many are done in the name of Christ??????
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loxy3
Member
| Joined: | Wed Jun 21st, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 3039 |
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Offline
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 12:48 am |
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dwsstlouis wrote: Mazel Schlimazel wrote: While it's important to take the Shooter's motivations and his personal radical inclinations into account, collectively scapegoating America's mostly taxpaying, hard-working moderate muslims is just stupid..
I believe the OP stated muslim nutbags, which I took to mean extreme and dangerous groups that hide behind Islam. As opposed to the few/five peaceful muslim families with the lively attire who live in my neighborhood.
Muslim v. Muslim nutbags.
Christian v. Christian nutbags
Atheist v. Atheist nutbags
Agnostic v. Agnostic nutbags.
The shooters motivations are quite clear based on his internet postings and activities outside the base: " Kill the infidel. Intimidate the west into leaving the middle east so we can once again ruthlessly rule over various groups of people we feel to be inferior, including all women, live large on our regional resources while the masses starve and kill anyone who even dares to look funny at us."
Ya' know...muslim nutbags.
what bothers me is what he could have done to the soldiers that sought help from him. It would be interesting to see how he handled those having a hard time after their deployments.
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s13
Moderator
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 01:30 am |
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Opinionated wrote: A nut job went on a killing spree. This has happened before. This particular nut job was religious. Well, religious nut jobs are no strangers to killing sprees. In fact I'd wager that they're more prone to killing sprees than their secular counterparts, but that's just me. This particular religious nut job also happened to be Muslim. That just goes to show that no religion is completely free of nut jobs. In fact, religion in general may be more prone to attracting/creating nut jobs than secular belief systems. But then again, that's just me.
I see no reason to condemn all Muslims any more than I would see a reason to condemn all Christians, Jews, or Buddhists for that matter if the killer had been of those religions instead. There are lots of Muslims who are not nut jobs, just like there are lots of Christians, Jews, and so on, who aren't.
Until such time as someone invents a "Religious Nut Job Prone To Killing Sprees O'Meter", I see no way of sorting the nut jobs from the non-nut jobs until the nut job does something to reveal themselves. Once that happens, I believe that all nut jobs, regardless of their religious affiliation, should be dealt with accordingly.
Bottom line? Being a homicidal nut job is non-sectarian, non-partisan, and non-discriminatory. It crosses all religious, political, societal, gender, and ethnicity boundaries. Just because one particular group has a homicidal nut job as a member is no reason to hang them all.
Thanks opinonated
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Tsalagi1
Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 01:38 am |
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There are over 4000 self-identified Muslims currently serving in the US Armed Forces, is every one of them now supposed to be considered a security risk?...
Better line up some non-Muslims that can speak Farsi and Arabic then...course, it can take years to get either one of those languages down pat to the point you won't be badly misintepreting it...
This has bad historical overtones....Sheridan's infamous "Only good Indian is a Dead Indian" comes to mind....
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s13
Moderator
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 01:41 am |
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Tsalagi1 wrote: There are over 4000 self-identified Muslims currently serving in the US Armed Forces, is every one of them now supposed to be considered a security risk?... That is a question that one will answer
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wilmywood8455
Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 01:43 am |
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Tsalagi1 wrote: There are over 4000 self-identified Muslims currently serving in the US Armed Forces, is every one of them now supposed to be considered a security risk?...
Better line up some non-Muslims that can speak Farsi and Arabic then...course, it can take years to get either one of those languages down pat to the point you won't be badly misintepreting it...
This has bad historical overtones....Sheridan's infamous "Only good Indian is a Dead Indian" comes to mind....
Oh, c'mon, T, you're no fun.........
I'm kinda enjoying all this jumping to conclusions. It might make Savage the unofficial voice of the right. Bodes well for Dems in '10.........
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