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BuddhaBuddha
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Posted: Thu Dec 16th, 2004 10:09 pm |
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| Canada is Fine by me.... Besides.. I love WHistler!!!
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BillytheKidd
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| Joined: | Tue Nov 30th, 2004 |
| Location: | USA |
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Posted: Fri Dec 17th, 2004 01:11 pm |
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Here are some figures that are impressive.
Poll: over 40% of Canadian teens think America is "evil"
by Arthur Weinreb, Associate Editor, Canada Free Press
Can West News Services, owners of several Canadian newspapers including the National Post as well as the Global Television Network commissioned a series of polls to determine how young people feel about the issues that were facing the country’s voters. Dubbed "Youth Vote 2004", the polls, sponsored by the Dominion Institute and Navigator Ltd. were taken with a view to getting more young people involved in the political process.
In one telephone poll of teens between the ages of 14 and 18, over 40 per cent of the respondents described the United States as being "evil". That number rose to 64 per cent for French Canadian youth.
. . . .the amount of anti-Americanism that was found is not surprising. What is significant is the high number of teens who used the word "evil" to describe our southern neighbour. As Misty Harris pointed out in her column in the Saskatoon Star Phoenix, evil is usually associated with serial killers and "kids who tear the legs off baby spiders." These teens appear to equate George W. Bush and Americans with Osama bin Laden and Hitler, .....
The Liberal government came into power in 1993 gushing anti-Americanism. Former Prime Minister Jean Chrétien’s communications director, Francoise Ducros, made headlines when she referred to President Bush as a moron. Liberal MP Carolyn Parrish was picked up on a boom microphone saying, "Damn Americans — I hate those bastards". Not only did Parrish not apologize for her remarks, but she later appeared on a television show hosted by alleged comedian Mike Bullard and laughed about the incident. Parrish played to the anti-Americanism of the youthful studio audience by saying that she couldn’t guarantee that she wouldn’t do it again.
Not only did then Prime Minister Jean Chrétien not take any action against his staff or caucus members, he himself engaged in America-bashing. The depth of his anti-Americanism surfaced shortly after the 9/11 attacks when he blamed the arrogance and greed of the West (read the United States) for those attacks.
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I like this one too, shows such togetherness, don't you think?
Canada Free Press
. . . "anti-American Liberal backbench MP Carolyn Parrish, who said the election demonstrates that the U.S. is "completely out of step with most of the free world."
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How much does America pay to the UN? Was that 25% of the total upkeep bill, why yes I think thats just about right. Good to know it's going to a good cause.
Canada Free Press
"I love that we are Canada and we are going to stay that way," were among the first words Martin uttered as he dropped the June 28 Canadian federal election writ.
More UN than U.S., Martin is playing the anti-American card. Last Thursday, he was in Toronto unveiling a $125 million gift for the economically challenged Toronto waterfront that includes a $3.3 million United Nations-endorsed University of Peace campus.
Martin has United Nations clout through UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan . . . .
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obs
Member
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Posted: Fri Dec 17th, 2004 01:45 pm |
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BillytheKidd wrote: Shun
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The Libertarian
Member
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Posted: Fri Dec 17th, 2004 01:49 pm |
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meh billy,
Kids are emotional. Everyone and thing is probably evil to them. Adulthood tames people.
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BillytheKidd
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Posted: Fri Dec 17th, 2004 02:48 pm |
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The Libertarian wrote: meh billy,
Kids are emotional. Everyone and thing is probably evil to them. Adulthood tames people.
Agree. But that doesn't explain Chrétien and Ducros. The "kids" learned it somewhere and my guess is these to dimwits.
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obs
Member
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Posted: Fri Dec 17th, 2004 02:56 pm |
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BillytheKidd wrote: Agree. But that doesn't explain Chrétien and Ducros. The "kids" learned it somewhere and my guess is these to dimwits.
and what exactly did Chretien say? that the reason the USA was attacked was because of its foreign policy? hardly radical that's what the 95% of the world that isn't American already knows
"They attacked us because they hate our freedom" give me a break ![[asleep]](/forums/themes/default/sleeping.gif)
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OB
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Posted: Fri Dec 17th, 2004 03:33 pm |
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obs wrote: BillytheKidd wrote: Agree. But that doesn't explain Chrétien and Ducros. The "kids" learned it somewhere and my guess is these to dimwits.
and what exactly did Chretien say? that the reason the USA was attacked was because of its foreign policy? hardly radical that's what the 95% of the world that isn't American already knows
"They attacked us because they hate our freedom" give me a break
Ok. Which policy? Our siding with Isreal in the Palestinian conflict? Our giving aid to every distaster that happens in the world? Our promoting free trade to third world nation to increase the worlds standard of living? (this causes americans to lose jobs in order to improve third world countries economy)
Try this one on. I do not like the UNs foreign policy. The rest of the world wants to work things through the UN bureacracy; however, it doesn't work. We have been putting pressure on the UN since last February to do something about the genocide going on right now in Sudan. What has kofi Anna decided to do? That's right, send more advisors and do another study!
Remember, the war in Iraq was unpopular; however, we did the go it alone thing with our allies during Bosnia. Big suprise huh? The difference was, the UN liked Clinton, as he pretty much went along with whatever they said. Bush didn't. He dropped out of the Kyota accord which meant a whole lot of third world countries would not be recieving billions of dollars that we would have to give them to buy their "credits" for polluition. Funny thing is, other countries like China didn't have to.
Sounds fair right? Well, if you are a third world country looking for a hand out, it was a good deal.
So, the world snubs us because we don't like their policy towards us? That's fine. The UN is a corrupt buruacracy that we waste to much time and money on. To be honest, I'd assume if we just dropped out of the UN altogether as it is irrelevant.
The UN is only relevant so long as the US choses to play it's little games. When we withdrawal, it will no longer have any meaning.
*bong*
Last edited on Fri Dec 17th, 2004 03:35 pm by OB
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obs
Member
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Posted: Fri Dec 17th, 2004 03:34 pm |
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OB wrote: Ok. Which policy? Our siding with Isreal in the Palestinian conflict?
Yes
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OB
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Posted: Fri Dec 17th, 2004 03:47 pm |
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obs wrote: OB wrote: Ok. Which policy? Our siding with Isreal in the Palestinian conflict?
Yes
Excellent choice. Time for a little history lesson here.
Once upon a time...
In The land of the UN, they made a resolution. They called it UN resolution 181, or the partition of Palastine. They was to be an arab state (palestine) and a jewish state (isreal).
But then, the good Palestinians decided they didn't want the jews there so they got with their friends the syrians, the iraqs, the suadis, the jordaninans and in 1947 started this thing called the Arab league. The goal of the Arab league was to drive the jews into the sea. So they gatherred up all their armies and attcked little isreal.
But what happened then has a true david and golliath story. Little Isreal defeated all the arab armies and conquerred most of their teritory. Now, they could have kept all this land, but they gave it all back to the Arabs in exchange for peace. The only land they did not give back was the west bank (that under the partition of palestine was a jordanian terority) and the gaza strip (which was an egyptian terority).
Wanna know even a better secret? There has never been a country called palestine! The name philastania was given to the area after the jews rebelled against Nero Cesear. After he defeated them and drove them out of Isreal, he wanted to name the land after their greatest enemies who were the Philastines. The Philastines were a greek sea faring people. Gliath was a Philastine. After that, the area was a part of the turkish ottoman empire for the next 200 years minues litle parts when it was conqueered during the crusade.
When it comes to world opinion about Isreal, the world needs to shut up. Everyone is so quick to point out that america gives Isreal billions every year. What they fail to realize is that the same amount is also given to Egypt as part of an agrement to get them both to end their last war with each other.
So, please tell me where my logic is faulty for thinking that we should support Isreal in the face of all these countries that are anti-semetic and want to kill jews? I know, Isreal has no oil reserves so we should side with our financial interrests over right and wrong as the rest of the world has done. But ya know what?
I'd rather drill in Anawar.
again, let me know where I went wrong...
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obs
Member
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Posted: Fri Dec 17th, 2004 03:52 pm |
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OB wrote: Excellent choice. Time for a little history lesson here.
Once upon a time...
In The land of the UN, they made a resolution. They called it UN resolution 181, or the partition of Palastine. They was to be an arab state (palestine) and a jewish state (isreal).
But then, the good Palestinians decided they didn't want the jews there so they got with their friends the syrians, the iraqs, the suadis, the jordaninans and in 1947 started this thing called the Arab league. The goal of the Arab league was to drive the jews into the sea. So they gatherred up all their armies and attcked little isreal.
But what happened then has a true david and golliath story. Little Isreal defeated all the arab armies and conquerred most of their teritory. Now, they could have kept all this land, but they gave it all back to the Arabs in exchange for peace. The only land they did not give back was the west bank (that under the partition of palestine was a jordanian terority) and the gaza strip (which was an egyptian terority).
Wanna know even a better secret? There has never been a country called palestine! The name philastania was given to the area after the jews rebelled against Nero Cesear. After he defeated them and drove them out of Isreal, he wanted to name the land after their greatest enemies who were the Philastines. The Philastines were a greek sea faring people. Gliath was a Philastine. After that, the area was a part of the turkish ottoman empire for the next 200 years minues litle parts when it was conqueered during the crusade.
When it comes to world opinion about Isreal, the world needs to shut up. Everyone is so quick to point out that america gives Isreal billions every year. What they fail to realize is that the same amount is also given to Egypt as part of an agrement to get them both to end their last war with each other.
So, please tell me where my logic is faulty for thinking that we should support Isreal in the face of all these countries that are anti-semetic and want to kill jews? I know, Isreal has no oil reserves so we should side with our financial interrests over right and wrong as the rest of the world has done. But ya know what?
I'd rather drill in Anawar.
again, let me know where I went wrong...
Hey I'm just telling you why Al-Qaeda attacked the US, I'm not saying the US should abandon Israel
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belgian guy
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Posted: Fri Dec 17th, 2004 03:56 pm |
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Those stupid canadians didn't follow that great american president (George "oil" Bush) into a war that couldn't be won and that is being fought for all the wrong reasons... shame on them!
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OB
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Posted: Fri Dec 17th, 2004 04:06 pm |
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obs wrote: Hey I'm just telling you why Al-Qaeda attacked the US, I'm not saying the US should abandon Israel
Yes, but if we don't abandon Isreal, the terrorist and the world won't like our foreign policy like you said. So, it comes down to stand up for Isreal and make the world mad, or let the UN sanction, penalize them, and possibly even attck them.Think How many times in the past few years America has vetoed anti-Isrealli legislation that the UN has proposed.
So, we are forced to fight the war on terror or give up our principles. The administration decided that the war on Iraq would help in the war on terror and they attacked. Whether everyone agrees with it or not is irrelevant. It has already happened. Canada decided not to support this cause and that is that. These are past events that cannot be undone, so discussing them is irrelevent.
So my point is, while yesterday I stood up for Canadians in a post if you remember, today I am saying Canadians should stand up for americans and not bash us. Respect is a two way street and I try to be respectful of all foriegn countries and cultures (with the exception of cultures that supress women).
You can be against american foreign policy if you choose to, you just should not be disrespectful to America or her leaders as America and Canada have one of the best relationships that any two countries in the world have.
Best regards...
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obs
Member
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Posted: Fri Dec 17th, 2004 04:12 pm |
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OB wrote: Yes, but if we don't abandon Isreal, the terrorist and the world won't like our foreign policy like you said. So, it comes down to stand up for Isreal and make the world mad, or let the UN sanction, penalize them, and possibly even attck them.Think How many times in the past few years America has vetoed anti-Isrealli legislation that the UN has proposed.
So, we are forced to fight the war on terror or give up our principles. The administration decided that the war on Iraq would help in the war on terror and they attacked. Whether everyone agrees with it or not is irrelevant. It has already happened. Canada decided not to support this cause and that is that. These are past events that cannot be undone, so discussing them is irrelevent.
So my point is, while yesterday I stood up for Canadians in a post if you remember, today I am saying Canadians should stand up for americans and not bash us. Respect is a two way street and I try to be respectful of all foriegn countries and cultures (with the exception of cultures that supress women).
You can be against american foreign policy if you choose to, you just should not be disrespectful to America or her leaders as America and Canada have one of the best relationships that any two countries in the world have.
Best regards...
Israel could quite easily survive without US support OB they have a nuclear detterent that none of their neighbours possess but regardless nobody is asking the US to entirely reverse their Middle East foreign policy just to show more of an even hand
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OB
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Posted: Fri Dec 17th, 2004 04:12 pm |
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belgian guy wrote: Those stupid canadians didn't follow that great american president (George "oil" Bush) into a war that couldn't be won and that is being fought for all the wrong reasons... shame on them!
They didn't have to. It was a coalition of the willing. That was there choice. It is a cause they don't support.
And it is a war we can win in less than 1 day if we choose to. actually, I think the war can be over inlike 23 minutes if we want it that way. But we are a civilliazed people that value human life. Look how many soldiers are going to court martial for mis-treatment of prisoners and such. When is the last time you heard any arab leader (besides the Iraqi prime minister) condemn the insurgents car bombing civillians?
What is funny to me, is how many people in the world want the Americans to lose in Iraq just so they can say "see, we were right!". The price of that bragging right will be a taliban style government of fanatics in Iraq or another ruthless dictatorship. I guess that is better than a Democracy.
Even though you may not support what started the war, everyone in the world should support the Iraqi people. They just want to live in peace (except for the Sunni's but that is a whole other debate)
Best regards...
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OB
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Posted: Fri Dec 17th, 2004 04:14 pm |
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obs wrote: OB wrote: Yes, but if we don't abandon Isreal, the terrorist and the world won't like our foreign policy like you said. So, it comes down to stand up for Isreal and make the world mad, or let the UN sanction, penalize them, and possibly even attck them.Think How many times in the past few years America has vetoed anti-Isrealli legislation that the UN has proposed.
So, we are forced to fight the war on terror or give up our principles. The administration decided that the war on Iraq would help in the war on terror and they attacked. Whether everyone agrees with it or not is irrelevant. It has already happened. Canada decided not to support this cause and that is that. These are past events that cannot be undone, so discussing them is irrelevent.
So my point is, while yesterday I stood up for Canadians in a post if you remember, today I am saying Canadians should stand up for americans and not bash us. Respect is a two way street and I try to be respectful of all foriegn countries and cultures (with the exception of cultures that supress women).
You can be against american foreign policy if you choose to, you just should not be disrespectful to America or her leaders as America and Canada have one of the best relationships that any two countries in the world have.
Best regards...
Israel could quite easily survive without US support OB they have a nuclear detterent that none of their neighbours possess but regardless nobody is asking the US to entirely reverse their Middle East foreign policy just to show more of an even hand
How would you propose we do that? Not block sanctions on Isreal when the UN tries to imposes them for assinating Terrorist leaders?
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obs
Member
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Posted: Fri Dec 17th, 2004 04:28 pm |
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OB wrote: How would you propose we do that? Not block sanctions on Isreal when the UN tries to imposes them for assinating Terrorist leaders?
You assume I mean a complete reversal of policy, the fact is at the moment the US basically gives Israel unequivocal blind support all the rest of the world is asking is that the US puts some conditions on that support
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OB
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Posted: Fri Dec 17th, 2004 04:31 pm |
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obs wrote: OB wrote: How would you propose we do that? Not block sanctions on Isreal when the UN tries to imposes them for assinating Terrorist leaders?
You assume I mean a complete reversal of policy, the fact is at the moment the US basically gives Israel unequivocal blind support all the rest of the world is asking is that the US puts some conditions on that support
I think we do. We are pressuing them for Palestinian state hood. We keep them from massive retalliations against the Palestinian people.
I sometimes wonder what would happen if we did realses their reigns. What would they do if the UN imposed sanctions on them and they ignored them. Would the UN send troops to attack isreal? The UN would be defeated as America would never support attacks on Isreal. And if the UN is defeated, what would they do?
I know, things are not simply black and white. But, I would say this, the US's blind support of Isreal is only matched by the worlds blind support of the Palestinians.
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Great White
Member
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Posted: Fri Dec 17th, 2004 04:42 pm |
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OB wrote: I think we do. We are pressuing them for Palestinian state hood. We keep them from massive retalliations against the Palestinian people. As commendable as it is, This limited restarint is VERY recent. Tthree decades of blind support for Isreal, among other things, have lead the Arabs to hate the USA.
I sometimes wonder what would happen if we did realses their reigns. What would they do if the UN imposed sanctions on them and they ignored them. Would the UN send troops to attack isreal? The UN would be defeated as America would never support attacks on Isreal. And if the UN is defeated, what would they do?
There ARE numerous UN sanctions against Isreal. Yet somehow Bush only felt obliged to enforce those against the man who tried to kill his Daddy. It's time to enforce the santions that are already in place against Isreal.
I know, things are not simply black and white. But, I would say this, the US's blind support of Isreal is only matched by the worlds blind support of the Palestinians.
Maybe, but it is questionable. One side has it's boot on the other's neck. What I see is the rest of the world wanting an even playing field between the two sides. Right now Isreal has no reason to stop it's oppression, it has the upper hand, and the world's only super power telling them it's OK.
![[allamerican]](/forums/themes/default/allamerican.gif) ![[usa]](/forums/themes/default/usa.gif)
Last edited on Fri Dec 17th, 2004 04:44 pm by Great White
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Great White
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Posted: Fri Dec 17th, 2004 04:46 pm |
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demdribble wrote: they open their border to terrorists- leaving us vulnerable.
Propaganda. Why do you believe suchs lies.
How many 9/11 terrorists came thru Canada?
NOT A SINGLE ONE.
They came therough AMERICAN customs, and learned to fly in the USA.
Last edited on Fri Dec 17th, 2004 04:46 pm by Great White
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OB
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Posted: Fri Dec 17th, 2004 06:22 pm |
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Great White wrote: OB wrote: I think we do. We are pressuing them for Palestinian state hood. We keep them from massive retalliations against the Palestinian people. As commendable as it is, This limited restarint is VERY recent. Tthree decades of blind support for Isreal, among other things, have lead the Arabs to hate the USA. OUR support for Isreal goes back a lot further. Yes, the arabs hate us for supporting Isreal; however, if you had read my earlier posts about UN resolution 181 you'd have realized that this whole conflict was started when the Arabs decided to form the Arab League in order to drive the jews into the sea. As the "palestinians" are not really a nationality (they just happened to be living their at the time England broke the Ottamen empire into the current middle eastern boundries). Many of the "Palestinians" were Arabs from throught the middle east who migrated there in the late 19th century and early 20th century as Jewish immigrants from Europe began settling there and brought with them irrigation, medicine, industry and science.
I sometimes wonder what would happen if we did realses their reigns. What would they do if the UN imposed sanctions on them and they ignored them. Would the UN send troops to attack isreal? The UN would be defeated as America would never support attacks on Isreal. And if the UN is defeated, what would they do?
There ARE numerous UN sanctions against Isreal. Yet somehow Bush only felt obliged to enforce those against the man who tried to kill his Daddy. It's time to enforce the santions that are already in place against Isreal. There are numerous sanctions that the America has vetoed against Isreal. I can not think of any that we did not veto. Again, can you name any that actually made it past the UN Security council without getting Vetoed by the UN.
I know, things are not simply black and white. But, I would say this, the US's blind support of Isreal is only matched by the worlds blind support of the Palestinians.
Maybe, but it is questionable. One side has it's boot on the other's neck. What I see is the rest of the world wanting an even playing field between the two sides. Right now Isreal has no reason to stop it's oppression, it has the upper hand, and the world's only super power telling them it's OK.
Maybe the arab agressors should have thought about this back in 1947 when they attacked Isreal. Time and time since then they have been attacked by the arabs or attcked Arab troop build ups on their border ahead of planned Arab invasions. If the Palestinians want an even playing field, they need to learn to play like decent human beings. Suicide bombing day cares does not cut it. I believe the Irish in northern Ireland recieved a terrible deal from England; however, I find it impossible for me to support their position as well as long as they go about bombing civillian targets in order to further their agendas. The same holds true to the Palestinians. I actually have very little sympathy for a country that invades another country, loses and then loses it's own country in the process. I realize the rest of the world paints Isreal in a bad light in order to show the Arabs that "see, we are on your side", but no one with moral conscience can ignore history.
It sounds all nice and good to want to "stop" the suppression of "palestinians"; however, a lot of Isreal's "tough" measures are to protect its citiziens. Sure, they can't get to their jobs in Isreal because Isreal doesn't let them in to work. But why is that? It's because under the guise of going to work, suicide bombers were sneaking in and killing Isreallis. Now their economy is crushed. Oh well, maybe suicide bombing wasn't such a smart thing after all. Bulldozing terrorists houses is fine too. It's a punishment for being a suicide bomber. You're family will be homless if you do this. Which again spreads the misery of Palestinians. But again, oh well.. DON'T SUICIDE BOMB!!!! And assasinating Hamas and Islamic Jihad leaders is not a "criminal" act. Terrosists by default have no protection under geneva convetnions and thus are afforded no protection. I know it doesn't sound nice though does it? But I guarentee if we could assasinate Osama Bin Laden, we would in a heart beat. People need to know both the truth and history behind the Isreal/palestinian conflict before just shouting "Isreal is criminal"
Last edited on Fri Dec 17th, 2004 06:24 pm by OB
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